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When Girls Talk Books
Are you ready for story time? When Girls Talks Books is a podcast with two best friends bonding between the pages. They give comprehensive reviews of books where even if you haven't read the book, you can still enjoy the story. Brace yourselves for a tornado of laughter and literary love! When Girls Talk Books is here.
When Girls Talk Books
Ep.17 The Troop By Nick Cutter
Susie and Kylee dive deep into Nick Cutter's disturbing horror novel "The Troop," a visceral tale about a Boy Scout troop stranded on an island with a mysterious, ravenous stranger harboring a deadly parasitic infection.
• Immediate trigger warnings for horror elements, animal abuse, and graphic body horror
• Discussion of the five Boy Scouts and their distinct personalities—Kent the bully, Ephraim the troubled kid, Max the regular guy, Newt the smart one, and Shelly the sociopath
• Exploration of the military-created parasitic worms that cause insatiable hunger while breeding inside human hosts
• Analysis of Shelley's disturbing psychological development and sadistic behavior toward the other boys
• Breakdown of the Lord of the Flies-like descent as the boys struggle to survive while infection spreads
• Detailed examination of the most horrific scenes including the cave sequence and medical experiments
• Reflection on the ambiguous ending and theories about Max's final fate
• Rating of 4-4.5 stars for the novel's effectiveness as pure, old-school horror
If you're looking for a genuinely scary horror novel that will get under your skin (literally and figuratively), "The Troop" delivers—but proceed with extreme caution.
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Merch Here
Hi everybody, welcome to another story time with when Girls Talk Books. I'm Suzy, I'm Kylie.
Speaker 2:And today we're doing the Troop by Nick Cutter.
Speaker 1:Everybody buckle up, Trigger warning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, trigger warning. This is a horror. It's gross. There are some talks of animal abuse. That is not pleasant, so off the bat.
Speaker 1:We were unprepared as well. Now, any time someone takes the time to put a trigger warning page, I could kiss every one of those authors.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I love you. I don't love trigger warnings. I like to be surprised. I don't want it to be spoiled.
Speaker 1:That's great.
Speaker 2:I love that for you. I don't want it to be spoiled. I want to be surprised, and if I don't like it, I'll skip ahead.
Speaker 1:How do you skip ahead when it's the whole book.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, I'm more trying to like. I read a lot of dark romance so I don't.
Speaker 1:I'm still I still have my baby bird feathers. I'm still taking a flight I haven't, I know, not saying I didn't like it, so anyway, just yeah, trigger the hell. Warnings be careful. Continue with caution. It's okay if you can't do this one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think this is a classic old school horror novel. This is not like a sugarcoat, thriller, slash horror. This is a horror novel. If that's not what you're going for, this is not for you. If that is what you're going for which we kind of were, we did want something that was like genuinely a horror novel, and that's what we found. Yep, so Yep, we went into it, but I don't think we were fully prepared.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wasn't. Yeah, what was your star rating Four, I would give this a four and a half.
Speaker 1:It was really good, Like it was good.
Speaker 2:It was probably my favorite horror novel I've ever read.
Speaker 2:Wow, this was really good, like it creeped you out, like the description was enough to really like make you feel it, if that makes sense, you know, without being like we get it to the next point. So I did feel like there was some of that, which is probably why it's not a five, probably why it's a four and a half, because I feel like there was kind of these rabbit holes that they went down A lot of stuff that didn't really matter. Yeah, Different storylines about random things, yeah, I could do that from their hometown, you know like I don't really care if yeah oh, now I'll save that.
Speaker 1:I'll add it later into my sense, but yes, I agree with you yeah, um, but it was really good.
Speaker 2:I would. If anybody's looking for a horror, this is it. Yeah, read this. Yep, I've had this on my shelf for quite a bit, and so I was happy we were going to do it, and I'm happy I read it.
Speaker 1:Same, I liked it, it was really good. I had never read any of his books Me neither so this was a great introduction. I guess I don't remember where.
Speaker 2:I got this from forever ago, anywho. Okay, get into it, let's go. We need to start by saying what the fuck?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but literally though, literally, though, like can we just start with like it all starts and then it all goes to hell in a hand?
Speaker 2:basket so fast, so so gross. Okay, so we start off with a news report, I guess you could say, or a news article about this woman at the diner and she's working and this guy comes in and he eats a plethora of food and is just very clearly starving and then her truck is missing when she gets off work so she thinks that he stole the truck. She also says something along the lines of him, which is gross. You, david, yeah, I could hear something coming from inside of him. I'm saying under his skin. I know that sounds silly.
Speaker 1:Can you imagine you trying to tell like your co-worker like okay, hear me out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they'd listen, they'd be like no way. So that's where we start. The truck is stolen. She felt like she heard something inside of him. This is also a news article on like a conspiracy theory site, so take that with what you will, but catch me on that site Anyway. Literally it's so mean. I think one of the coolest things about this book was, like you got the perspective of the people that were gross, so we. So. The next chapter is this the guy who stole her car that was really hungry.
Speaker 2:we get his point of view typhoid tom, as they were calling him which is like it's so good, but it's like it makes you feel gross, mm-hmm, because you're in his point of view, mm-hmm. But so he did steal the truck. He then stole a boat and he talks about how he's so hungry. He's so hungry, he should have pulled over and eaten that roadkill. And he's so hungry, so hungry. And then he goes to um, he finds bolt, and then he goes to this island where he then eats sea moss and the crab that's walking on the beach and he shoves that in his mouth and it's so squishy and delicious, anything and everything within sight yeah, and he's just like eat, eat, eat, eat, eat.
Speaker 1:I need to eat, and he keeps hearing this voice in his mind telling him eat, eat, eat yeah.
Speaker 2:Also within the chapters. At the end of almost every chapter we get like either an interview or an interview, or like a, an excerpt from court, yeah, or an article about something that all kind of connect back to the storyline, and the first bit that we get is about the island that the man ends up driving the boat to, and it's vacant. There's nobody really there. There's one building that is technically like an emergency shelter for, like, the people who go there to study and like education wise, essentially, but there's nobody who lives on this island full time. It's uninhabited, okay, yeah. Now who is at this island? Hmm, who better to be at the island than the Boy Scouts, a group of Eagle Scouts?
Speaker 1:But yes, literally Boy Scouts are out there and it's like, oh no.
Speaker 2:Oh no, so let's get into our characters. Here we got Tim Riggs.
Speaker 1:Who is the Scoutmaster, and he's also like the doctor of this small town, yep. And then you've got the Eagle Scouts. You've got.
Speaker 2:Are they actually Eagle Scouts?
Speaker 1:Apparently, that's funny.
Speaker 2:Anyway, sorry, I'm just going to say I also don't know.
Speaker 1:the difference Is that just like they're older and they've done more?
Speaker 2:I have no idea. You're asking the wrong gal.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, yeah, I don't know those. If you were like, well, I was captain of the girl, let me tell you so they're beaver wait.
Speaker 2:Even worse, the five of them together through beaver, their ventures oh, they're boy scouts, it's.
Speaker 1:I like the way it rolls off the tongue okay I.
Speaker 2:I kept thinking of them as boy scouts. So you've got kent.
Speaker 1:Yep, he's the douche of the group, but he's the poor kids.
Speaker 2:You know there's reasons okay okay, kent is the jock of the group put it uh, ephraim, I really liked him yeah he's kind of like the troubled kid, like his dad went to jail, his mom is raising him, he has like these anger issues that he's aware of and tries to kind of keep them under wraps. But he's just a little damaged boy. And then you've got max. Okay, so there's max. Max and ephraim are best friends, yeah, so max's mom babysat ephraim and so they kind of always had each other, so they were best friends. Max is just kind of regular guy. His dad does the funeral home.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, oh the mortician.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So there's Kent Max Ephraim Newt, who is kind of the chubbier kid. He's very smart. They kind of make fun of him, and then we have Shelly.
Speaker 1:I forgot about Shelly. I didn't write Shelly's name down. Not that I forgot the character, but Shelly's a psychopath. I'll tell you that he's beyond psychopath. This is sociopath because I know that psychopaths can have feelings. This kid no, this is sociopath. This is like what nightmares are made of. I don't know what was worse what happened in the book or Shelly.
Speaker 2:I think Shelly was the worst part about it. So Shelly, like you, don't obviously find out right away that he's crazy.
Speaker 1:But we had a feeling, I know, at the beginning of the book. I'm like I kept forgetting about him.
Speaker 2:I was like, okay, I know that there's the four boys who's the fifth one, like that's who I kept Because I know there's five boys who's the fifth one, and I kept forgetting and I was like say it was like Max. I feel like Max and Shelly like weren't really talked about a lot in the beginning and then At the end they get definitely more and more character development. That makes sense. So we have our and the Scoutmaster Tim, and they are on the island for, like, their yearly expedition.
Speaker 1:I guess you could say and the boys are going to get to try to, like you know, like, challenge their skills and get new badges, yep.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So along comes, it's nighttime or evening, I guess you could say. The boys are all in their room and here comes this man and he pulls up and the scoutmaster can't really turn him away Because he would feel guilty about it. He can clearly see this man is sick. The man at some point grabs clumps of dirt and shoves them in his mouth. Which back to our other book.
Speaker 1:The whole point of the book is that he didn't turn him away, grabs clumps of dirt and shoves them in his mouth. And I also Back to our other book. The whole point of the book is that he didn't turn him away. But at the beginning of this book there is an instant where Tim is minding his damn business outside at night and he had a fucking choice. Like he had a choice when this thing is so far away and he doesn't know he's a man yet and it's like when you hear the stories of people talking about seeing cryptids for the first time, you're like you had an opportunity to turn around and not be a part of it and here you go.
Speaker 2:I. I kind of get what you're saying. Yeah, like I get it.
Speaker 1:The book wouldn't be any good if that's the whole point of the story but it's like. This is why, if you see something weird, you don't have to investigate further.
Speaker 2:But like you're on a secluded island, he's gonna come and knock at the door. At this point he's coherent enough. Yeah, we're like. He thinks that he needs help. So much kinder than I. He's a doctor. I know why I could never be a doctor.
Speaker 1:Yeah cuz, I would just turn the light off and pretend.
Speaker 2:I'm not there and he's the town's only doctor, which also hope nobody's sick that week.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, and hope you're not going to have a baby or anything, or hope, I don't know hope the doctor doesn't happen to him, I don't know yeah.
Speaker 2:Anyway. So the boat comes, the guy comes up, stay one night. I just can, I just say one night. And, um, do you have anything to eat? I'm starving. And then that's when he like shoves the dirt in his mouth. He's like guys like whoa, whoa, you don't gotta do that, buddy.
Speaker 1:And they end up like I know the dirt has vitamins and minerals, but like you don't have to listen to everything bear girl says it's all right, buddy.
Speaker 2:So he does let him stay for the night. And he tells the boys there's a man here, he's very sick. I'm going to see if I can try and help him. He's staying for the night. You boys stay in here. No, I'll be fine. The way that they describe the description of him knocked it out of the park.
Speaker 2:You felt like you were there, foul um, he beheld a creature stepped, fully formed from his blackest childhood nightmares, a rotted monster who had dragged himself from the sea. He wasn't much more than skeleton, lashed by ropes of waterlogged muscle, its flesh falling off, its bone, in gray-laced edge rags it lumbered forward, mumbling dully to itself. It's so gross. It's so gross. The descriptions in this book really made you be like, I feel icky, like I think that's how I felt the majority of this book. So he ends they have a radio. So when they got to the island, a boat dropped them off and was going to come at the end of the weekend to pick them up. They don't. He tells the boys not to bring phones, don't bring anything where you can contact.
Speaker 2:This is an unplugged weekend. Yeah, they have one radio that he got ready because there was a storm that was going to come through and he knew that. So in case they needed help or anything, he did bring the radio. No, doctor, it's like this man is more sick than I know what to do with. So I'm going to call the mainland and get help. And as soon as he gets the radio working and is ready to call, the man like charges and breaks the radio and stomps on it and throws it on the floor and just like crazy, I'll call it a psychotic break, because I don't know how else to to like describe it in the way of like this guy went apeshit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then he, they kind of have like a little bit of a tussle and he ends up like throwing up on Tim's face. I was freaking out and he takes it and he's just like, oh, like he thought it was like sea moss or whatever, whatever he had been ingesting. Yeah, because the man did get off the boat and like take seaweed and throw it in his mouth because he's just eating everything. He ends up giving him like a what's the word I'm looking for sedative, yeah, a sedative, and ties him up.
Speaker 1:Right, yep, yeah, he ties him up and has, and has him basically laying in the living room.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but then he goes to sleep and at some point somebody got up and was rummaging through the cupboards eating food. So at 10 am the next morning the island is officially secluded and under quarantine.
Speaker 1:Investigation by the military.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's strictly prohibited for anybody to come in and out of that area.
Speaker 1:All water crops are not allowed to go over there, mind you, the people on the island have no idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they don't know. Blissfully I don't know. So the next day Toon goes down to the dock where the boat is and tries to start up the boat and the spark plugs are gone. So the boat doesn and tries to start up the boat and the spark plugs are gone. So the boat doesn't work. He can't get back to the island.
Speaker 2:Now the radio is broken panic I would start to panic but if you think about from their point of view, like somebody's coming in a few days, yep, they don't know that nobody's allowed to go there anymore.
Speaker 1:So again, the people just it's friday morning and you and me are looking at each other like don't worry, it's fine, your dad's coming with the boat, right? Yeah, he said he'd be here. Okay, we'll be fine, let's just play it cool.
Speaker 2:Your dad would be the boys' dad who tried to Literally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, get over there, so much we'd be getting off that island. I'll tell you that, steve coming to get us, he's going to find a way, him and Justin in the scuba gear, anyway, sorry, so the spark plugs are gone. He ends up telling the boys that they're still going to do their wilderness trek, their solo hike, as they're supposed to, their solo hike as a group. Yeah, okay, so he's still going to send them to do that while he takes care of the man. Now, a little bit of a situation. The spot where the man threw up on his face is burning and he's like his face is burning and he's like his skin is twitching. But we're, we're just ignoring it. But yeah, it's fine, I'll be fine, right, yeah, yeah, fine, um, we start finding out about like a patient, zero for this Random entry of police file patient zero, what the hell.
Speaker 2:Basically.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Basically yeah, basically, and there's some sort of runaway biological weapon, and what is it being used for? So we get that little tidbit.
Speaker 1:Ha, ha, ha, ha Ha ha.
Speaker 2:What so scary, like just thinking about it, like can you imagine just going about your life and you're like okay, cool, you know, I think, well, I don't trust anybody, so I'm like well, yeah, duh, duh, they have like crazy, weird, like things they could release you know, anyway. So then we also start to hear about certain doctors who have been messing around per se with disease and things like that they can use for weapons.
Speaker 1:Let's bioengineer it. Yeah, because that's not scary Like. Isn't there a whole franchise about why you shouldn't bioengineer science? I just watched Jurassic World. Yeah, because that's not scary Like, isn't there?
Speaker 2:a whole franchise about why you shouldn't bioengineer science.
Speaker 2:I just watched Jurassic World. Yeah, like hello, we all know it doesn't end well, but we gotta keep trying Anyway. So, while the boys are on their trek, we learn a lot about the boys' dynamic, which we kind of always already kind of talked about. Kent is definitely a bully. He thinks that he deserves to be in charge. Learn a lot about the boys dynamic, which we kind of always already kind of talked about. Kent is definitely a bully. He thinks that he deserves to be in charge. Um, his dad is the sheriff. His dad is the sheriff. I did end up feeling really bad for kent very much, because I think he's very much just a product of his environment and how hard his dad had been on him of like, you're not a failure and you're tougher than that. And yeah, I mean these are 14 year old, 15 year old boys and he had a chip on his shoulder.
Speaker 2:That was essentially put there to me, it's true. Yeah, so they're on their walk and at some point they see, um, helicopters flying, and then there's also like a arsenal of ships in the distance and they're like, well, sometimes they do military maneuvers out here, like it's not the craziest thing to see ships right, and he's like, but I mean, that's a lot of ships out there sitting there, they're not moving, they're clearly anchored.
Speaker 2:But okay, and also, at one point the walkie-talkie goes off and you hear the what's his name? Tim, yeah, the scoutmaster guy say like Jesus Christ, jesus Christ, what is that? And they're all like are you good, like what's going on here? And he's like oh yeah, I'm good, it off of animals and squishing their eyes and he just thinks you know how, in every red flag stuff when they talk about serial killers in the beginning. He's got all of them how they started.
Speaker 1:Yeah, every warning sign is there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so that's when we first. He ends up um sorry, he bursts the crayfish's eyeballs. He talks about his mouth collecting saliva. At some point he gets like very turned on by these actions that he's doing.
Speaker 1:He's just like classic something's wrong serial killer yeah, yeah um, we also forgot about the crayfish. I was so upset about the other ones that I completely yeah. Well, that's like your first bit of it.
Speaker 2:Don't make it right here. You're not okay Now. Your things are firing. And then we find out about Kent. So Kent has created an online persona because he is pretty heavily bullied, and even like, by his friends. But the way that it's described is they're not actually trying to be mean to him, but they definitely are, and I think they just don't realize how hard they actually are on him because they do care about him. So that's really sad. But so we kind of find out a little bit of backstory about them. That's when we find out about Ephraim's dad, who went to jail and that him and Max are really close. And we find out about Ken's dad.
Speaker 2:I loved their friendship. It was so cute, yeah, but it's all like very complicated, like it's all a very complicated relationship group Because they kind of like they. They are friends but they're not friends, not so much like shelly, like he's just kind of off to the side the whole group is united and like keep an eye on that one yeah, but like ephraim and kent definitely have their problems because they both want to be the leader, so like they're not very nice to each other.
Speaker 2:They're not very nice to um kent, not kent. Um newt. And then max is just kind of our regular dude is what I would say, um, so anyway.
Speaker 2:So on this hike you find out a lot about, like, the dynamics of the group per se. So like, when they left, he uh, tim had handed the walkie talkie to max and at some point kent was like I should have that and you know I should have it. So he ended up taking the walkie-talkie, which Max is like dude, I don't care, like okay. So they get back to the cabin and Tim is sitting outside Not looking good, huh, not looking so good.
Speaker 2:He's not looking great and he is like saying don't go inside. Um, there's warm coats, we have a fire, you'll be fine. Um, the man is very sick.
Speaker 2:Sick in a way I've never seen before and I definitely can't diagnose it so yeah, um, they end up kind of like having a conversation of like is there anything you can do for him? Like, what can we do? And because Max's dad does taxidermy also, he decides that Max should help him operate and see what's going on inside of this man. Sink Tim, sink, sink Tim. Come on, tim, well to Sink Tim. Come on, tim, well to him. A surgeon never performs alone, so he has to have somebody with him, and I get it and these kids are acting very mature for their age.
Speaker 2:But I just Bro, these are kids, but it's so hard because you're in such a survival situation. I don't think they should have done it to begin with.
Speaker 1:If someone wrote a book about me in a survival situation, they'd think I am the biggest wuss that ever existed. Man, I would be so boring and not interesting because I just no way Me. I'm out in the woods by myself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm actually in the trees because you're not getting me and I know that it's.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's just no way I would look at someone else's teenager and be like I'm going to have you do this adult thing with me because I think you can handle it. Come on Like no. No, be like boys. We're going to the northernest point of this island and we're sitting in a circle and we're waiting.
Speaker 2:I also think, like because I am very motherly type, that's just my personality. Like oh Tim, you're not looking great motherly type, that's just my personality.
Speaker 1:like oh tim, you're not looking great so you can stay here with the crazy person me and these boys are going away from you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we survive. Yeah, but if we're all around the same age and I'm also 14, uh, peace out, yep, bye, bye, yeah, uh. So they do what we would never do. They do kind of talk about at the end, or Max kind of talks about, because there's an underlying theme of like adults think that they're different from kids, but they're really not, yes, and like kids stick together and where adults think more of themselves and like facts, this is actually not my problem. I'm not doing this Like, as soon as I see like sickness, I'm taking my kid and we're going Like whatever you guys choose to do, that's on you. So, anyway, rabbit hole. So anyway, max goes inside and he sees that Tim has set up an operating table, so he's been very has set up an operating table, so he's been very busy while they've been gone.
Speaker 1:He also sees A lot's been happening.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he also sees that almost everything in the kitchen has been eaten. Ransack and Tim is not looking great. He's lost a lot of weight already and Tim says there's food in the cooler that I haven't touched. That's for you guys, and I'm not going to leave it there, I know.
Speaker 1:Like this guy. Yeah, I know that he did his best and I know that you know I'm always going to find something that's not good enough, but yeah, he did try.
Speaker 2:He really cared about these boys. He just really underestimated the seriousness of this. Yeah, he like even in his craziness okay, no surprise, tim gets just more and more sick. Yeah, and sorry, you were gonna find out in 10 minutes anyway.
Speaker 2:Yep, um, even like through the sickness, he is still like trying to protect the boys and like staying away from them and things like that very selfless yeah, and to think about, like what this sickness does, and it because it makes you crazy and like you just are gonna eat everything and anything, and like he's still trying to be like no, no, you guys go his moral compass didn't go, and usually that's the first thing to yeah, in someone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so um him and max put some alcohol pads on their face to be surgical mask.
Speaker 2:Just max, oh, yeah, but we also see that Tim has this inner dialogue, and there's actually a few of them, so there's one who's like you shouldn't do this. You just need to like walk out the door.
Speaker 1:The voice of reason is that lizard brain back there which they talked about. Lizard brain, yeah, I love that. I'm like hey.
Speaker 2:We talk about that. And then the other voice is well, don like, hey, we talked about that. And then the other voice is well, don't you want to know what it is like?
Speaker 1:you're sick too, you should. You should figure out what's going on.
Speaker 2:Him had to know I think it was like the ah, I can't, okay, let's just get out what's happening. Okay, so they end up cutting open his stomach.
Speaker 1:I'm looking at you like I didn't read the book.
Speaker 2:I'm like and then In his stomach is like a tube, is what they say. So he cut opens his stomach and it looks like there's another stomach lining in there and he's like what are the odds?
Speaker 1:This guy has like two stomachs and there's no way right. So he goes to cut the second layer of stomach and it like moves, moves and it's it like I was so like what the fuck this?
Speaker 2:So it's like just kind of gathering my thoughts. It like moves around in his stomach and it's like almost like trying to heal itself or like eating on itself. I don't, I don't know, but it comes out.
Speaker 2:Well, it's like coming out, and then Max is like Tim, tim and then it like fully comes out and it comes like like out, and then it's like five feet tall yeah, I pictured like a scary movie stomach person here, monster it does it so slowly where it's like a foot, two foot, three feet like and they kind of describe it as like a headless albino cobra coming out of a basket and it like lurches towards them and tim has the scapel and he cuts it and then this brown liquid comes out.
Speaker 1:It's all very gross. There's a very it's not a quality film. It's not so. I'm not over here being like it's this great movie.
Speaker 2:Five stars. She recommends it Right.
Speaker 1:There's this scary movie from like the 90s, I think, or early 2000s, called Deepwater Rising, and the monster in that Sounds really familiar. The monster in that Sounds really familiar. The monster in that movie is so similar to this and the only difference is that the monster in that movie is like a sea monster. Okay, dude, that was fucking wow. So I just kept thinking to scenes of that when I was watching or when I was reading this and I kept feeling like oh god.
Speaker 1:But yeah, this thing like how far are we going to spoil the?
Speaker 2:monster. Now, well, we'll just go one by one, okay. So he ends up cutting it and they're like oh my gosh, it's a worm, like it's some sort, it's a parasite. So I guess we'll just say that, yeah, but they do refer to it as like worms a lot.
Speaker 1:But imagine a worm the size of a like serpent from biblical times.
Speaker 2:It's huge. This thing's bigger than a person.
Speaker 1:I pictured it like this thick, oh not conservative. I was thinking it was this big around, like at least that big around Anyway.
Speaker 2:Words Anyway, we're trying, we're trying our best. We thought you were Never mind. Okay, anyway, we're trying, we're trying our best. We got her never, okay. Um, so they end up cutting it. And then the worm like well, tim is still trying to protect max and it's like cover your mouth, don't let it get near you, because at this point tim obviously knows that it's something contagious because he has it, so can't imagine the horror he felt watching this going.
Speaker 1:I'm next.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I think that's also part of the reason why he needed to dissect. This man is to be like what is this? And then the worm slithers up the body. Well, it goes back in at one point and then it comes back out, yep, which is foul. And then it wraps around the guy's neck and ends up killing him, which is like why would you kill your host? I never understood that.
Speaker 1:In the character's mindset. They're like why is it killing its host?
Speaker 2:Well, they talk a lot about when you come to find out that as soon as the host is dead, the worm is also, so the worm ends up dying. But then it's so confusing, yeah, because also like in the beginning, it's kind of like just one, and then we come to like, as things progress, it's definitely not just one, it's like mutating on the spot, as it's continuing to go to, which was weird yeah, so we talk.
Speaker 2:It talks about like um, you find out, the way that it works is it's requiring you to eat, it's telling you you need to eat, you need to eat, you need to eat, and then all the things that you're eating and all the energy that it has it's using to just reproduce. So the more you're eating, the more it's reproducing, the like sicker you're getting, the more like fast-acting it is. It's crazy.
Speaker 1:It's. I do have to say I was on chapter. I was in chapter like 13 when.
Speaker 2:I went.
Speaker 1:I wonder if it's a. And then it turned out I had called what like. I had called it like what parasite they used for this, and I'm like oh, that's crazy.
Speaker 2:Oh okay, it makes sense.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I only know that because of, like, all the animals we'd had, I'm like huh, this behavior, more afraid of those than I ever was to begin with. And it's not logical because this isn't real, don't try and make a weight loss pill.
Speaker 2:Yeah, don't. Woohoo, yeah, so, and then the boys are like banging on the door and like let us in, let us in. Well, it's really Kent. And then he's like go to the door, go far away, like you don't want to be in here. I said no, yeah, and they go out and they tell the boys like there was a worm in there. Can you imagine their?
Speaker 1:eyeballs are like there's like an owl, like bro what?
Speaker 2:I've seen some stuff in there. So they end up telling him like it's like a worm and that's what's doing it. Shelly is watching them talk about it. Shelly, shelly, shelly, and he's very like, mockingly shocked or disgusted by it, but like, not actually Like you can tell his inner thoughts are. He doesn't really care. It's weird. They said it was very hollow, inorganic and just not normal. And then Kent is like I need to see it. Of course you do, and they're like you don't need to see it. But he ends up, tim ends up trying to block the door from the boys. Kent ends up like shoving his way in and they can tell now that scoutmaster tim is also sick and so they decide to lock him in the utility closet.
Speaker 1:This is very sad that was if that was heartbreaking to read how all the utility closet. This is very sad. That was if that was heartbreaking to read how all the boys kind of like Ganked up on him. Yeah, like, yeah, riot energy, and they just all did it and I know they had to. But I'm already kind of scared of teenagers. So if a group of teenagers did that to me, oh poor.
Speaker 2:Tim yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, tim, yeah, oh my God. And also I was scared Cause like why?
Speaker 2:are you all touching him?
Speaker 1:Stop touching him. Everyone's obsession with everyone knows a cabin is dangerous and you're all in the damn cabin.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so conflicting. I thought that was one of the biggest things with this book is it was so conflicting Cause like on one side. He does need to be isolated and this thing is clearly making you lose your mind and he does need to be locked in the closet they did the right thing on the other end, tim is very scared.
Speaker 2:he like it's happening to him. He's terrified these kids that he's raised basically like are locking him in the closet. He like the way that it's described of him being like, please don't do this, please don't do like it's so sad. And the boys also reflect on like that kind of herd mentality of like things just got carried away when they did it. But I do ultimately still think it was probably the right decision. Yeah, so it is very like, at the end of the day, this, this is survival. Yep, sorry, this book gave me a lot of Lord of the Flies, a lot, yeah, yeah, which I realized after I read it and I started reading some of the reviews. I don't read reviews until after I'm done because I don't want it to be spoiled.
Speaker 1:That's fair that a lot of people had that same. I like going in blind. It's fun Thought. It's fun Thought. That's why I don't read the trigger warnings.
Speaker 2:Oh, but yeah. So a lot of people thought it was very Lord of the Flies, flies coded Esk. Yeah, so, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. They find out.
Speaker 1:They all are.
Speaker 2:They put it in the closet After.
Speaker 1:that the boys kind of end up around the fire, kind of like so you know, that was crazy and like I think the boat's still coming right, right, yeah, of course the boat's coming right yeah.
Speaker 2:And then there's Shelly, who's over there hoping that the boat doesn't come so that he can quote, play his games. Yeah, um, they also like. While the boys are locking tim in the closet, shelly has very much like a wolf-like grin on his face. He's definitely enjoying this, which is gross. And then so after he's in there, there's a whiskey bottle that Scoutmaster Tim was drinking while performing because he thought it would maybe help to kill the worms Fair. I'd probably be down on it. Kent looks at it and Shelly says go on, kent, have a drink.
Speaker 1:As if Shelly had clocked already Like oh this is a contact spread. He's like, yeah, go ahead that part. Yeah, I didn't even like Kent, I was like no Spoiler. He drinks it.
Speaker 2:He does drink it, sorry. Oh, so then we start having like federal, like the actual investigation, reports and questions and answers, and one of them is from another doctor that was working, and this is where you start to discover that like this was oh, dr erickson was talking about dr edgerton um, like, it was definitely made in a lab and erickson had just gotten out of school when he got this opportunity and, um, he thought that clive edgerton is the main guy who made it.
Speaker 2:He's very smart, but he's also, like, very devoted to the science, where he lacks empathy in whatever happens.
Speaker 1:So once Shelly gets a degree okay.
Speaker 2:Basically. Wouldn't it be crazy if that's his dad? That's not what it is, but I don't think we ever really hear. Well, we hear about his mom a little bit, but yeah, there's a lot. Anyway, yeah, so they. You end up finding a little bit there about the actual guy who created this parasite.
Speaker 1:Dr, Frankenstein.
Speaker 2:Doesn't really care about what happens, and they were making a pill that rich people could buy to be skinny. That's ultimately what this was come up from because the world revolves around being skinny apparently. And he says A two-pill system. Yeah, clive used to cite the motto that you can never be too rich or too thin. He'd say if I can make the rich thin, then look, then they'll make me rich yeah, they'll like make my yeah uh gross.
Speaker 2:Okay, uh, okay, uh, okay. What the heck is this? Oh, there's this really sad scene where Max talks about his dad and there was these birds that were like by, like the roof or something, and he keeps trying to get rid of their nest and the birds keep coming and rebuilding the nest.
Speaker 1:That was so Cut the show, that was so sad.
Speaker 2:And it kind of talks about like getting carried away, mm-hmm. And so it was definitely like there's, I do think some of this stuff is like what are we even doing here? There is like a lot of like comparisons. And so essentially his dad kept trying to get rid of this nest and the birds kept coming back and so then he put like concrete in it with like wire in between and the dad bird came and it broke its beak and ended up passing away and when they took the, the concrete off of it, there was a mama, bird and babies in there and it was really sad and the dad felt horrible and he's like, if I would have known, you know I wouldn't have done it, but it's like, but you still did it.
Speaker 1:So I think that this book was laced with lots of lessons of like pause and look at what's underneath. Like always take another suzy, don't judge a teenager just because he was a douche. Like look underneath.
Speaker 2:And so Max thought about this in relation to Scoutmaster Tim and how they all kind of got carried away, but it still doesn't change the fact that they did it. So that was all very sad. And then they start talking about the boat showing up and like, well, we just need to wait for the boat to show up because, also, they were like these are grown-ups, like our parents, the police, the military the grown-ups are gonna come and get us.
Speaker 2:They're grown-ups, that's what they're Poor kids. It's so sad. Poor, poor kids and um, so now we have a little bit of a point of view of Tim being trapped in the closet. He does kind of understand that he's ill and the boys had the right to lock him up, even though it really hurt his feelings and like that's really scared, the feral feel of the boys, like putting him in there was a lot, even though like he gets it yep um, and how he could still see his little strip of light from the bottom of the closet.
Speaker 1:He starts, starts eating the wallpaper.
Speaker 2:He starts eating the wallpaper Because in the voice inside of his head is like there's always more to eat. You can eat anything, you can find it. And he says just eat, eat, eat, eat, Like the voice in his head, Because the more that he eats, the the more they can breed inside of him. Um, and shelly also is like well, if the boys ask me about it, like you know well, I have to protect us. It could be airborne, it could be whatever.
Speaker 2:So he's doing this. It's essentially just a cruel act. There's no real reason for it in his mind. Um, but he has like his excuse. Essentially just a cruel act, there's no real reason for it in his mind, but he has like his backup. It's an excuse. And then so we learn more about how crazy Shelly is. And there's like a spider outside and he ends up like lighting two separate sides of the web on fire to like see what the spider will do. And then it ends up lighting two separate sides of the web on fire to see what the spider will do. And then it ends up escaping and he chases it around and keeps trying to burn it.
Speaker 2:And then he hopes that it will make a new web so he can try again, because he's crazy. He also talks about sometimes people take legs off of spiders and he takes photos. That's the only evidence. He doesn't keep anything. Yeah, anyway, because spiders couldn't tattle on you.
Speaker 1:Look, I don't like spiders either, but I don't torture any living thing, god, I hope not.
Speaker 2:If you do, we have.
Speaker 1:We need to talk.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know if we need to talk.
Speaker 1:You're like Justin and I need to talk about moving far, far away.
Speaker 2:So this is the point where Shelley says maybe the boat won't come, maybe not now, maybe not for a while, maybe not ever. And that would be just fine, because it gives him plenty of times to play his games and if you played them patiently enough, carefully enough, he might be the only one left to greet the boat if it did show up.
Speaker 1:So this is actually the origin story of saw got it. Let's play a game. It's you.
Speaker 2:Shelly, because I feel like for like 10 or so chapters you don't really hear much about Shelly, and then it's like oh, oh, and it just gets worse. Oh, no, yeah. So the next morning the boys wake up and the cooler is gone it is which I immediately thought Shelly, are you playing a game? Because you just said yeah, that makes sense. Um, and also, kent is looking rather rough, so Kent is clearly sick.
Speaker 1:And one thing the boys have noticed, uh, with this illness is, once you start getting it, yeah, you start getting frail, thin, like like starvation victim thin in a matter of a couple of days, like three days yeah, you notice symptoms within like 12 hours of this contamination.
Speaker 2:um, and so Kent is not looking good. We also find out about the first test subject, which is Tom Padgett, which is the man who showed up and essentially they said you know, we're going to inject you and figure out what happens from there. And Tom said sign me up.
Speaker 1:Which anyone like. That's a lot of trust. You got to really trust in science for that.
Speaker 2:I don't trust people enough for that. And so they did it and they handed him a nice envelope with cash and he said I guess that was enough. It would have to be. Actually, I don't think this is the first guy. Maybe it is because they said they gave him cash.
Speaker 1:I'm pretty sure it is too, because they went from people, they went from the animals to this guy. This guy was the first human. Yeah, you had it right.
Speaker 2:Which is crazy, Like we find out what happens to the animals and then you thought let's put this in a person Like perfect, Crazy, Anyway. So the cool was discovered um far away. There was no evidence of it being dragged. It was definitely picked up and moved and but from the look of things, because it's just everywhere, wrappers looks like a raccoon or a bear had gotten in.
Speaker 2:They said it did look like there was like an animal had gotten into it which put two. It did look like there was like an animal had gotten into it which put two new together. Here everybody.
Speaker 1:Obviously Kent, but this is a group of boys, not a group of girls, so that's why it took longer for everyone to figure it out. You and me would have had this whole place like figured out, not doing this.
Speaker 2:You locked that door. You want to go in there. Don't come out. I'll tell you that Um the. So At this time the boat is supposed to come.
Speaker 1:Yep, I had put you know. The boys are 10 minutes out from the boat, so it's like 8.15. 8.20 in the morning 8.23.
Speaker 2:And the boat is scheduled to arrive at 8.30. The guy who's supposed to pick him up is very on time Old timer on the island.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's always on time.
Speaker 2:While they're waiting for the boat, kent is kind of slumped over and he ends up eating like moss.
Speaker 1:That part was funny because I imagined him sitting there like a frog and being like hoping none of them would notice.
Speaker 2:It's like, fuck, that's a laugh, don't look at me, don't look at me. And the boys are like, are you okay? You look a little rough. Yeah, you good, bud, yeah. And then we find out that the night before, surprise, surprise, Kent woke up, was very hungry, took the cooler, was mowing down on it and good old Shelly's in the bushes just looking at him in his old Shelly way and he has a wolfish grin on his face and Kent essentially threatens him like don't say anything or else I'll kick your ass, man. He's like stupid Funny.
Speaker 1:He'd have to have feelings to be afraid, Kent, but all right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the boat does not come and a storm comes and they need to take cover.
Speaker 1:But where will they take cover?
Speaker 2:The cellar, but they A know that Kent is sick and they don't want him down in the cellar. Valid B Tim is also still locked in the closet of the house and it's a really bad storm and there's a fight between Ephraim and Kent because there's this pent-up testosterone happening essentially yeah, and they, he's like you can't come down with this, you're sick. And there's this big fight, this part, yeah, e from beats up Kent, which I was so worried.
Speaker 1:I'm like don't start physically fighting you guys. No.
Speaker 2:And also at one point they go into the house and they tell the scoutmaster there's a big storm coming. And Tim is the one who says go to the cellar. There's blankets, there's candles, you know, get what you can. Go down to the cellar. And Max says like what about you?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and Tim's like you got to leave me here, he said. I think.
Speaker 2:I'll stay right here. And he said why he's like you know why? I'm not feeling so good.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:He said you know why Are any of the other boys sick? And he said I think Kent is sick. And he says I'm so hungry and at some point there's blood that comes under the door and he's like you're bleeding. And he's like am I so like he clearly has harmed himself and doesn't notice or know why that can be. This is so sad.
Speaker 2:And he tells him he tells him to go and to go to the cellar. So we come to the animal testing and, um, it is a chimpanzee. And they give it to her and she has all the same problems of the hunger and she's eating all the food they gave her. So then she starts eating things in the cell. At some point you can see the worm coming out of her, coming out of her, and she goes through these times of like feeling okay, to like really not doing well, and she also ends up starting to consume her own flesh, which I think was kind of what was happening with scoutmaster tim even though it's not said, I think that's probably what started happening and she ends up passing away within 15 hours of getting the.
Speaker 1:And, mind you, while that's all playing, the doctor is, just like you know, entry 444. Subject is blah, blah, blah. And then he switches and makes the kid go in. Yeah, the other doctor died and the student's like oh my God, oh Jesus Christ, he's aware of how wrong this is yeah, yeah. If y'all really want to know, you read. Yeah, you read, I'll even give chapter 20. If all you want to read is just that, there you go, there, I'll even give you it's horrific and she also like at one point.
Speaker 2:like because the worm has, like part of it has, come out of her. She ends up like eating it.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yep, this was hard. It was so gross. I have had a little trouble with food after this book.
Speaker 2:Let's just say I finished it this morning. The first thing I ate was when I got here today. Yeah, I understand, it's not Anywho. So this is where the fight breaks out between Eve and Kent, and Max and Newton are very much. Newton are like you can't just leave him out here in a storm, and so they actually end up, after the fight between the two of them, they end up getting him someplace and they give him a tarp to keep dry and it's very sad.
Speaker 1:You saw them trying so hard to be good people. I'm sure the parents would have been proud. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And also Kent is like I'm sorry, I'm I'm sorry, so like it's, it's so sad and it's so hard because it's also he is sick you can clearly see that he's sick, scared, alone and their children yeah, yeah, um, and then the cyclone comes in.
Speaker 1:It's like full on storm, storm.
Speaker 2:Oh, also when they're like trying to find him a place and they end up getting him covered Like a oh the bug yeah, a bug like crawls onto his face and can't just like.
Speaker 1:Again, like a frog, like a frog.
Speaker 2:And they're all like oh, like you're not good, okay, and they go back to the cellar.
Speaker 1:So I had my imagination. In my picture they put him like in a wood pile lean to situation.
Speaker 2:You know like just a little, you know like not that big, but big enough.
Speaker 2:Big enough to tuck him in there? Yep, yeah, same, not that big, but big enough. Big enough to tuck him in there. Yep, yeah, same. And then, while the boys are finding Kent a place to stay, ephraim and Shelly are down in the cellar and Ephraim's like what are you looking at? And Shelly's like nothing, nothing. And he's like what is it? And then he's like I just thought I saw something under your fingernails, fucking asshole. Oh my God, sorry, agreed, this was so sad.
Speaker 2:So Ephraim is noticing that his knuckles are busted from picking a fight with Kent, immediately panicked. I immediately panicked Because Kent is infected and Kent was bleeding, and so he's like what if some of his blood got into my knuckles? And da-da-da-da, infected and Kent was bleeding, and so he's like what if some of his blood got into my knuckles? And da, da, da da. So he's already spiraling. And Shelly. Shelly's like let me just, it's like nothing. I just thought, maybe I saw. I just thought I saw something under your fingernails. And so he really hyper, fixates on it and it's very, very, very, very sad. So the storm comes, trees fall, uh, and it one of them ends up actually falling through the roof of the cabin. So it falls partly like on the cellar area, so they know like it had fallen. They're're like oh my gosh, scoutmaster Tim is in the house and also Kent comes and starts banging on the cellar door Please, please, let me in. And they end up letting him in.
Speaker 1:I was shook.
Speaker 2:It says get in but you have to sit away from us. I'm sorry, which Kent was like.
Speaker 1:Yeah no problem.
Speaker 2:Like oh, now you can listen, can listen, huh, now you're taking orders yeah um one last sip so, um, another theme throughout the book is how like, uh, worms like really can exist through like anything, like they have that like cockroach mentality of like well, I'm gonna make it. And so they talk about the way that they were gonna. The doctors talk about the way that they were gonna administer the weight loss medication was through sugar pills, because worms can live through anything, so it might as well taste good. And it was like they were like frozen or whatever. And then so as soon as they hit your digestive tract, they would come alive, and most of the time parasites need a warm, wet environment.
Speaker 1:So if it's, yeah, in the human body is the perfect temperature for growing things.
Speaker 2:And he talked about like you could send these bad boys to space and then you could find them out in space and they would still work. Like they would work no matter how long it's been or where they're at. Like as soon as it hit the digestive tract. It would be fine, gross, gross, it would be fine, gross Also. Oh, the boys say we need to go check on the Scoutmaster. But Kent, you stay here. Kent has braces and there's a bunch of stuff stuck in his braces like bugs and things, and also his teeth have started falling out all but one, but they're like hanging on by that one, so he's decaying. They go upstairs and unfortunately, scoutmaster Tim, the tree fell on him, which also the most merciful thing that could have happened to tim.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it fell on his head, so it was quick thank goodness, and they're like I don't know what to do. And then his stomach starts coming up and it's very much alien movie where they break out of his stomach, the navel of his stomach, and they just all start coming out and not only that, but they, the boys, realize that these parasites are aware that other things are around.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because, because they start to come towards them. When the boys talk, then they move and hiss and chatter. And that's what made me think of that sci-fi movie I had watched, because that's what the monsters do they tick, they hiss and while they start chasing you, bleh, bleh.
Speaker 1:I couldn't swim in water for a few summers, comfortably, after that movie and I knew it was a cheesy movie, just like you know, sometimes the cheesiest ones freak me out the most, and they also discovered that they have like little mouths on them it's also that's when they start to talk about in the book that the doctor specifically chose tapeworms, because they're the most like, aggressively, they, aggressively, they grow the fastest and they make their hosts very hungry because they need you to eat, because they eat you.
Speaker 2:It's all very icky.
Speaker 1:Gnarly.
Speaker 2:So RIP, Scoutmaster Tim.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:You didn't deserve that. I'll say that.
Speaker 1:The one character that definitely, like nobody, deserves a diet doctor, surely, but Besides me?
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. So we also find out that it is actually impossible for anybody to satisfy that kind of hunger that these worms are giving them. There's also like I don't, you don't find, find out here, but at some point you find out. There's like a queen bee, queen worm that travels up your spine into your brain. And that's the one that is. It's the puppeteer that eat, eat. Yeah, it makes you and then it lays eggs along the way In case it dies. It can have successor, queen worms.
Speaker 1:I've never seen us be so uncomfortable before.
Speaker 2:It's all so gross.
Speaker 1:So icky.
Speaker 2:We haven't even gotten to the cave part. I know that is the worst, okay, anyway. So after, anyway, so after that Newt is I've come to find out I'm a little bit of a Newt because he's like, okay, let's make a list of things we need to do. He's like we need to find food, we need to get some medicine for Kent and we need to either make a raft or get some oars for the boat that we have, because we got to go.
Speaker 2:We got to figure out what we're doing here, which is so. That's so you, cody, I would have done that yesterday, like as soon as I knew something was going on.
Speaker 1:How do we get out of here? As soon as you and me make eye contact and our eyes realize we're both going. Hey, hey, we're kind of fucked here.
Speaker 2:I'm kind of having oh, thank god, okay, me too I've been feeling it.
Speaker 1:So do you think maybe, uh, yes, yes, I do, yes I do. And do you not like shelly either? Fucking hate the guy.
Speaker 2:Let's go we need to hide. We're finding that cave first, actually.
Speaker 1:Yes, we're hiding, yes, um, okay, so they uh, the boys end up like kind of after the cabin. They all are kind of on the shore. So Cyclone has just ended. Everyone's sick. Tim is dead, what did they just see? And they're all just kind of like they're watching the boats.
Speaker 2:They realize that the boats are actually probably military and are watching them. And are watching them. And um, who was it? Shelly is kind of putting the thoughts out there of like you really think anybody's going to come and get us. That was funny.
Speaker 1:Starts planting the seeds of doubt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he says I'm saying that maybe they won't let us leave, even if we build a raft. They'll keep us right here because we're contagious, because hello, leave, even if we build a raft, um, they'll keep us right here because we're contagious, because hello and um max is like uh, our folks won't let that happen. They're adults, adults don't do stuff like that. Oh, so sad, um, anywho. So they decide that oh, oh.
Speaker 1:A boat comes. They saw their neighbor's expensive boat.
Speaker 2:Mr.
Speaker 1:Wal-Mac's boat starts mobbing across the little bay. That was a Joker ring, That'd be. So my dad on his little ski boat Like no.
Speaker 2:Oh, I can't go. Yeah, oh, really yeah. Watch me With his little ski boat like no, oh, I can't go. Yeah, oh really yeah. Watch me with his little attitude, his beard flowing in the wind oh really you're gonna tell me, like I literally can't show her dad hates the word literally.
Speaker 1:And now, when he makes jokes about her and I, he will be like no, it literally happened, and we're like oh Steve, good job.
Speaker 2:I literally died. He's going to love that. We shouted him out, did you literally? But did you die? Is his other classic, anyway. So the boat comes like skidding and it hits too big of a wave and the engine cuts out. And the boys can see this happening, but they also are like what the heck's this guy doing? Um, and then black boats come. They end up arrest or removing the people from the boat. There's two people and they end up. They do beat them, but we don't find that out till later.
Speaker 1:Um, and then they end up blowing up the boat and then the other boats just disappear. Can you imagine being the person on land watch Savior? Huh, wait, what Me, don't forget about me, um, and so we.
Speaker 2:Well, we haven't found out yet, so we'll keep the order here.
Speaker 1:Um, so newt has to go inside to get rope or something I don't remember. Are they gonna tie up and his guidebook?
Speaker 2:oh yeah, his field book so they could find yeah, because they're also, they also start thinking of like there's plants that have like um natural diuretics and stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah so there's things that they can find to maybe try and wash some of the parasites out, which is kind of a good idea. Yeah, I like I don't want it to begin with, but if we gotta do plan b and c, that's actually pretty good here, yep. So, and like, when he goes in the cabin and he goes to the room and he can like hear the worms moving, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Very descriptive. This author like really Foul.
Speaker 2:Yeah, foul. And so he ends up like getting a sleeping bag and he puts it over him to like protect him. And then he, he like, what was it?
Speaker 2:he like fell or something slipped in the nastiness he went to the closet, he got out his stuff he needed. He's like don't breathe them in, don't breathe them out. Oh, the scout master's arm, yeah. So he ends up coming like across scout master's body without really realizing it and he flings the sleeping bag over him. So now he's at least covered. And he gets his and he flings the sleeping bag over him. So now he's at least covered. And he gets his rope and he hightails it out of there, icky. So we find out that the people on the boat were Kent Jenkins' dad, so the town police chief and Max's dad.
Speaker 1:Two dads said F you, I'm going to go get my kid.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So they tried to go get them and then so also in this report, the public finds out that the scout troop 52 is on that island along with the boys and there was no comment on what had happened. Still, of course Can't be honest. So they decide that they need to go and find food. Kent is locked in that cellar and Shelly is missing. They call him, he doesn't answer, and so they're like, should we just go anyway? And they decide that they have to. They have to go find food somewhere and as they're walking like, these three are kind of like actually friends. Kent is too, but like in a different way where he's still kind of a bully. But so they kind of are like just being boys and stuff. And um, max realizes that ephraim has started scratching his elbows so much that they're bleeding and he's scratched through his windbreaker so and he's also been like very obsessive about his knuckles, um, then they end up.
Speaker 2:Oh, so then we get shelly's point of view. And shelly purposely waited until the boys left, so he was hiding from them because he wanted to play his games in earnest.
Speaker 2:Okay, this guy, I'm just saying some people's kids, um, and then he did end up actually following them for a bit. So he's a fucking creep. Just to make sure that they weren't. They were out of his way, um. So once the boys were gone, enough that he thought he went back to the cabin and he was excited, oh so excited. It took events of precarious magnitude to pierce the Teflon plating surrounding Shelly's emotional core to make him feel much of anything, because he's crazy. That's such a good description.
Speaker 2:But there was so much to hold his interest today and he starts to play these games, um, with oh, I didn't, I didn't highlight any of this and I'm just gonna touch on it very, very briefly. Um, shelly at home escalated his abuse of animals to a really horrific extent and you do hear it all. And um, he ends up killing his mom's cat and and we're not gonna Lock that kid up.
Speaker 1:That's all I'm gonna say and throw away the key.
Speaker 2:Like, come on, yeah it was. It was Really really hard to read, it was Really hard to read. And I think I would have skipped it If it weren't for this.
Speaker 1:Agreed.
Speaker 2:I felt like I needed to read it Because of this. That's how I felt too.
Speaker 1:I hated, like if we had just been reading this book, to read the book I would have skimmed through, but you don't know what you have to.
Speaker 2:I cried my way through it. Yeah, I love cats, I love them. It's no joke or no surprise to anybody that I love cats and I yeah, I'm going to cry thinking about it. So, anyway, um, anyway, so you, you definitely see more magnitude of what Shelly is capable of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this isn't a kid, this is a predator.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, very much so. And so he goes to the cellar and he ends up taunting Kent of like, oh, I got steak and this and that. And oh, the military did drop off a food package, would you like anything? And he ends up bringing him like bugs and stuff like that for him to eat. And, um, he also is like very taunting of like Kent ate all the food. And how disgusting that is and how could he do that. But like so crazy, because he's like, oh, you're still hungry even after you ate all of our food. Do you think I should let you out? Because he's like, please, I'm so hungry. And so he brings him bugs. He also brings him um the worm from the original guy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right, you heard that here, folks. Mm-hmm, yeah.
Speaker 2:And gets him to consume it, and Shelly calls this his ultimate playground, which is crazy. Um, da, da, da, da da.
Speaker 1:He gets him out of the cellar too, yeah.
Speaker 2:He gets to him and then um.
Speaker 1:Oh, and then?
Speaker 2:oh, we start to realize that Shelly is definitely going to start playing into Ephraim's delusions and fears. Yeah, I would say like paranoia about, like potentially having it. And we also find out that he really didn't see anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, under ephraim's fingernails he just said that to like get into his head and it clearly worked um, it's like if you know you have a friend with ocd and you taunt them.
Speaker 2:It's just so fucked up yeah, he said that was all. It had taken the smallest seedling. He split Ephraim's skin, just the tiniest cut, and slipped that seed in. So Ephraim's fine, but like he doesn't know that he's fine and it's very, very sad. So Ephraim decides that he is done walking. He's exhausted. They haven't found anything. He's not going any further.
Speaker 2:And also at this point Ephraim and Max get into a fight and he ends up punching Max in the face. That's really hard because they're best friends. And Ephraim knows that he has an anger issue and he tries to keep it in check. And so he says you know I'm issue. And he tries to keep it in check. And so he says you know, I'm sorry. And Max is like it's okay, like I know. And he's like, no, it's not okay. And so they're like are you sure you want to stay here? And he says yes, and they're like we'll be back. So they, max and Newton, leave him in the woods by himself. So after they're gone he really starts messing with his hands, oh, and Ephraim like talks to the worm in himself and is like we could just share, we could share me. Like please don't take everything from me.
Speaker 2:Like yeah, it's trying to reason with it yeah, you um, share me my body okay, but like you can't do to me what you did to scoutmaster Tim, you really shouldn't have done that. Maybe you can't help yourself. I get it, I have control issues too. We could what's the word like? Live together, but you can't. You better not. You better not fucking eat me Trying to coexist.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so we also found out in the chapter with Shelly that Shelly had left a walkie-talkie in ephraim's bag to mess with him, and so he ends up calling through and he's like you guys left without me. And he's like, well, we couldn't find you. And uh, he's like it's okay, I'm not angry, like how's it going?
Speaker 1:and oh yeah, he says I'm by myself.
Speaker 2:uh, newton max left and he's like, oh really, and.
Speaker 1:Perfect, my prey is a though.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm. And so essentially Shelly has convinced Ephraim that he does have the parasite in him. But he could, he can get it out, he can get it out, he can get it out. And so Ephraim essentially ends up carving his body to try and get these worms out. And he says Shelley says to him would you rather, eve, put up with a little pain or get eaten by the worms you know? Ah.
Speaker 1:It's so It'd be such a good horror movie. This would be the absolute best horror movie.
Speaker 2:Um, and so we're left with Ephraim ends up picking up his knife, because at first he puts it down and then he ends up picking it back up. Shelly's like coaching this entire thing. It's so, so sad. I watch a lot of murder, documentaries about stuff like this yeah, You're just like oh, my God.
Speaker 2:So Max and Newton they end up finding blueberries and so they ate their fill of blueberries. They definitely end up bonding, and at one point they do kind of get into a tiff. And Newton is like I can't take it right now, like do not pick on me. And Max is like whoa, like, whoa, whoa. Like I wasn't trying to, I'm just saying. And he's like I get it, I'm nerdy, I'm fat, I'm this, I'm that like I don't need to hear it right now, and it was so, so sad. Because max is like I'm not trying to, like you know, I'm just saying like yeah, you, like you're really smart and stuff like that. It was. So this book is just so sad and gross. So they also find a turtle.
Speaker 1:No, not the turtle. Okay, that was so I know the cat was equally sad, but this was just so.
Speaker 2:They end up finding the turtle and they are starving, and so they're like meat score, but the turtle really puts up a fight.
Speaker 1:They're bad at it too.
Speaker 2:But Susie, they're children, they're like 15. The turtle really puts up a fight and just will not let go. And Max is sobbing and he's like please, please, just die. Yeah, please, um, why won't you die?
Speaker 1:and um, it ends up being a very excruciating situation both I mean obviously the turtle had it worse, but the boys also were really mentally messed up from this, from their mistake and they were so distraught. They didn't even consume it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they were so distraught and he ends also um, this is a little bit. After that, they end up finding turtle eggs on the beach and they help the turtles get in the ocean and they protect them from the birds and stuff, and so I think that kind of makes them feel better.
Speaker 1:They're trying to get their karma back, at least of any kind. So sad.
Speaker 2:That was really really hard and like Max just being like, please, please, like. They don't want to do this.
Speaker 1:They're definitely like they're not, shelly, they're not enjoying it. They had been out for days and they're actually hungry, not parasite hungry, they're hungry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was so sad. We also get after that an interview-style thing and we find out that there's one lone survivor of the island tragedy and he stated that the infected people seemed like they were stronger and happier when they were falling apart, Like they couldn't see what was actually happening to them.
Speaker 2:So they had like this delusion of strength and power? Yeah, yeah, this is more about Ephraim trying to get the worms out of him and he's losing a lot of blood and his speech is slurring and Shelly is continually Coaching him. Coaching him, yeah, trying to get him to continue, and you have to keep trying. Are you a weak, uh sucky baby, like everybody says that you are.
Speaker 2:He says that like people talk bad about him at school and saying like how weak he actually is, it's he's like no, I'll prove him wrong yeah um, they're just so sneaky, if I can just oh, yeah, yeah, because he says that they keep like getting away from him as soon as he goes to grab them. Um, after that we get a interview with um kent jenkins dad, the police chief, yes, and we find out that they never found kent's body.
Speaker 1:So um and how it really tore up like hit the dad as a person.
Speaker 2:They need a closure yeah, and that's also where we find out, um, that the police ended up beating them really badly when they tried to go over to the island, or the military, I guess. Um, so we know that kent's body was never found, so we get back to kent, okay. So kent's point of view at this point, after he's eaten the worm, is he is like transformed into this, like mega powerful guy.
Speaker 1:It's like he felt internally, the way he sees his dad an unstoppable force of nature like the strongest man.
Speaker 2:He was powerful. Oh yes, the brand new strength shot through him. Pounds of muscle were slabbed onto his arms and legs. His chest cracked apart and widened, as his shoulders grew broader and thicker, he did not feel pain or fear anymore. Was this how a superhero felt? Or God? What was he now? So that's how he's feeling. That is not how he's looking we come to find out but he is feeling like Zeus.
Speaker 2:Zillion bucks, yeah. Then we get Shelley's point of view and once it becomes nightfall, shelley decides that he's going to dispose of Kent. Oh, how thoughtful of him, because he can't have too many dishes. He's juggling here, you know, he can't be spinning that many plates, literally. And so we get Shelly's point of view of Kent when he ends up opening the cellar and Kent is just skin and bones framed. He's also covered in boils and is just not looking as great as he feels, that's for sure. Uh, and he's also slurring his um words a lot like cognitively. He's going obviously um, and he ends up kind of like come on, come on, like grabbing him out of there.
Speaker 1:Kent's teeth are all gone and he takes him back or he takes him down to the water yep, water yep um they kind of may go a roundabout way, but yeah, he basically is like he's mocking him, kind of just playing with it, yeah, and gets him to come onto the shoreline because he wants to get him in the water yeah, and he, he keeps saying show me, I want to see, I want to see, I want to see.
Speaker 2:And he says, show me. And kent ends up coughing in his face, uh-huh, and he's like oh, and then he kind of realizes that he's a little bit in danger, but he's still like show me, show me, um, and it's, I think, I don't remember exactly. I think it's like the fear that he wanted to see, or like, underneath, the delusion of like his body is depleted and he's not doing well, um, and he ends up, uh, putting his head into the water and Because, yeah, I had pictured him like, getting him, wading him out to almost waist deep, and then started yeah, dunking him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this part was disturbing. Okay, so yeah being okay.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, so he he ends up going further and further and he's like pulling him by his hair and it ends up detaching and thousands of white little worms come out and they're swimming in the water they're everywhere this couldn't get any worse yeah, there's a sting in his hand, a light burning sensation, only less severe.
Speaker 2:It ends up being everywhere. I did think I will say I found it a little fitting that it also went into him on the downstairs, considering that he is aroused by all these crazy things. That felt like a little bit of a good justice for me of like there you go, how about that? Around and find out, huh yeah, um, so shelly ends up dragging himself back to shore.
Speaker 1:Um, he's kind of like getting hilarious, which, like this. This is what he thought was funny.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is what you wanted to get, I guess. Um he, so he ended up just going back to the fire and and then we see a snippet of him feeding himself obsessively. I feel like Shelly's route with this goes a different way, but I think that's also cognitively. He had a different mindset, which is disturbing. Yes, so gross.
Speaker 1:That's a turtle part. Oh, and we haven't even gotten to, oh my God, the cave. Well, no, even before that, ephraim.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we find out that the doctor that created this he's incarcerated and he's been in the mental health wing since he was arrested. Turns out, and then? Okay, so the bull oh, that's Shelly. Back to the berry picking boys oh, that's Shelly, back to the berry picking boys. Oh, you find like Shelly, shelly is very like kind of aware of what's going on in his body so he feels that worm going up, slither up his spine making tunneling through pop snap, crackle, pop, yeah, um and again the voices eat, eat, eat, eat.
Speaker 2:But it's like he's happy to do it in a way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and he was like calling them his babies and how he's gonna take care of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's later, that's later yeah, but this is still just like eat, eat, eat. It was so gross. And uh, so they're like so then we're back to Max and Newton, who are, um, like okay, okay, we gotta get back to camp. We got some berries for Ephraim, let's hit it, uh.
Speaker 2:And they end up coming across Ephraim and he just has wounds everywhere and he, ephraim, is like they're inside of me or maybe there's just one, I don't know, but they're very sneaky and they're like help me. And yeah, so he ends up saying like you have a bigger knife, can you please help me? And they're like Ephraim, like you don't look any skinnier, like you're clearly not infected is what they're getting at? But, um, they end up telling him like, uh, well, we have some mushrooms and we'll give you those, like to kind of flush it out. If that doesn't work, then yeah, we'll help you, just to kind of get him to calm down, because he thinks that he has it, like there's no doubt in his mind that he has it and somebody told him that he had it.
Speaker 2:And they're like who are you talking to? Who are you talking to? You did it perfectly. And Max sees, like along his temple, his veins, and he's like, oh my gosh, they really do look like worms. So this whole time Ephraim's been pulling at his veins to try and get them out, because they really doesn't work. So they return to camp with him and Kent is gone and Shelly, I don't think, is there, don't know, don't care, and they're really scared. They're starting to get really scared.
Speaker 2:They're still kind of finally now hope that adults will come, like they're not just gonna leave them out there. Adults will come, adults will come, adults will come. Oh poor kid, it's very sad. And uh, then we get, uh, there's a guy working at the lab and he, oh, we find out there was a deposit made to the lab's bank account and it was from a military research firm. Oh gasp, I'm so surprised. Yeah. So a big theme in this is like was this on purpose, did the military set this up, or was this actually just a crazy guy? There is also a part where we find out Both can be true.
Speaker 2:Somebody who really had known the doctor was like, given the day off, was signed to leave and their fingerprints were on like the back gate where the man was let out. So it's kind of alluded to beach and shelly comes out of the cell table and, uh, again he's like uh, or ephraim tells Shelly he's not looking so great, who knew? And Shelly says um, you saw it, didn't you? Because he's just gaslighting Ephraim and he's like the worm. And he's like, yeah, and he's like it's inside of me. And um, ephraim is like it's still there. It's still there, like can you help me get it out?
Speaker 2:Because he, he's like asking anybody who will listen, like can you please help me? You have to get it out, um. And he's like why? Why do you need me to do that? Is it because you're weak? Like Shelly's such an asshole? Um, and he's like I can't do it, it's just too sneaky, I can't get it. I can't get it, um. And oh, he ends up telling him like I see it. And he's like do you really see it? He's like yeah, it's behind your eyes. And he's like you have to get it out of me. I can't, I can't stand it, I can't do it and he he's like I'll do it, but only because we're friends. He doesn't. I don't know how he convinces him.
Speaker 1:I don't know how he convinces him. I don't either.
Speaker 2:And during this, ephraim's like thanking him, like, thank you, thank For trying to get it. Um oh, he says that he can't cut it out Because it's too sneaky. The only way to get it out is to burn it. Uh huh, um he. Ephraim's eyes were a little white and wide and the bloody mask of his face. Shelly's words, came to him as a revelation. They were the most sensible words anybody had ever spoken because I forgot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this was after he basically scalped him yeah, he had like oh yeah yeah, oh, this was so terrible and so he says, uh, I have to burn it out, you from, it's the only way.
Speaker 2:My friend, you know that, don't you? You're my very best friend. And uh, he, he from tries to uh hand shelly the lighter. And or he goes to get the lighter and ephraim says, oh, it's okay, I have my own and handsome miss zippo. And uh, yeah, it's, it's all very horrendous. They end up pouring the gasoline on him and by the time that newton and max are back you promise, just stop it completely on fire, um, and they can't save him.
Speaker 2:Save him and it's horrible. So this entire time ephraim was never infected and this was all just shelly's like crazy sick fantasy mind game and, uh, it's like his second.
Speaker 1:It's his second confirmed kill too.
Speaker 2:That just yeah, wow, and shelly isn't there when they come back and then, and then he does come back and they were like where were you, where were you? And he's like, oh you know, I was just out. Yeah, so crazy. And they see that Shelly is sick too. So was that from Justin.
Speaker 1:I was like that was two in a row Is everything okay.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, and there's another one, and so they say like, stay away from him and Shelly and Max get into a fight and Shelly ends up stabbing Max in the stomach.
Speaker 1:That's when I was ready to throw hands too, like not that I wasn't before, but I was getting really mad Like y'all. Leave Max alone. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And Newton, newton. I don't know why I keep saying.
Speaker 1:Newton, it's okay, my brain keeps thinking that you're calling him mutant. And I'm like oh, there's a mutant. I keep saying Newton, it's okay, my brain keeps thinking that you're calling him mutant and I'm like oh, there's a mutant, oh, I missed that.
Speaker 2:He ends up grabbing a baseball and oh wait, no, he ends up grabbing something and he ends up hitting him, hitting Shelly across the head with it, and he's like I had to, he was going to kill you if I hadn't Yep. So Shelly ends up getting up.
Speaker 2:Sulking off into the woods probably with a wolfish grin on his face. He ends up getting up and is like I'm going to, you know, end you. And he ends up like spitting at them because he knows that he's infected. That Gross, yeah. And they also end up hitting his knee with something and, as he's like limping off, max is like I might have broken his knee because he's limping and he's like they were like what do we do if he comes back? I don't know what we do. And they end up deciding that they have to bury Ephraim Because that's the only way he'll get to heaven. So sad. After that, max ends up going to sleep and, oh, he ends up like going to sleep on the grave and which was so sad, so sad Because he has like moments of like we'll never do this again.
Speaker 2:We'll never do that. We'll never which all the boys kind of have this revelation of like we're never going to get married, we're never going to have kids, we'll never go on that hike again together, we'll never so hang out after school and um, uh, so max ends up falling asleep.
Speaker 2:We get back to shelly's point of view and he is eat, eat, eat, eat, eat. He needs to eat, he wants to eat everything. He's found this like cave thing that he'll go in. Um, he claims that he's not sick, he's just changing into something new. He could feel it inside of him. Uh, he, this is where he really starts honing in on. He has these babies inside of him and he's gonna take care of them, and a father always defends his children. Oh, so gross. And he ends up exiting the cave and he, um, goes back to camp and newton, newton, for the love, kylie, um, you're doing amazing. Sweetie is still awake and he's like by the fire and he sees shelly and he's like I see you, and he has a knife and he's all. He ends up stabbing the knife into a log and, uh, shelly, he says like go away, just go on, get out of here, go on, get out of here, make some of that, uh, and shelly does uh leave and, uh, I have an eyelash that's waging war on me.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, get out of here. Get out of here. Much later he is in the cave and he is like this is the best place to give birth. Daddy, he's going to be the best daddy.
Speaker 1:Just the best. This repulsed me just so bad. This just really gave me so many icky feelings.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And so then we get kind of like a military point of view interview, of like, when they quarantined this area, yeah, they did know the boys were on it and there's nothing they could do about it. They were essentially yeah, it was cut and dry Collateral damage. Nothing came on that island, did know the boys were on it and there's nothing they could do about it. They were essentially yeah, it was cut collateral damage nothing came on that island, nothing came off and like even seagulls who flew over the area were brought down and taken out of the water.
Speaker 2:They had dumped, like gal or like what was it blue death into the river area To kill all sea life Kill anything and everything. They flew over the island to drop stuff, to like Kill it, kill everything. So sad, it was non-negotiable.
Speaker 2:No life was allowed to be on this island and at one point the interviewer is like you didn't think to tell the kids what were going on and he was like nothing comes in or off of that island, we weren't taking anything in there. If we would have told them it would have just made them lose their minds. And the interviewer is like it didn't seem like they had lost their minds anyway, like really, but it was very like zero feelings about it and from that man's point of view it was what it was. It was unfortunate, I guess. But I can't let him leave so so weird. Yeah, um, max ends up having this weird dream about these things in a darkness and he ends up waking up and realizing that the man who arrived on the boat probably ate the spark plugs yeah, and they were in his stomach. Guess what happens? Sued up Ten minutes later they're in the cabin. He puts on like dishwashing gloves and then also bread bags over his arms.
Speaker 1:So us they tape it.
Speaker 2:That would so be us. They tape it to then get into the stomach to grab the spark plugs. They are successful. They end up going down to the boat they're going to wash them off and then they lay them on the pink rock to dry and they have hope, which?
Speaker 1:again. Why are you setting those fucking things down Before I even read? Any farther I went, I would not have done that they end up.
Speaker 2:Oh, there's no gas in the boat, so they leave. It ain't got no gas in it. They leave to go find gas and when they come back the spark plugs are gone. Hmm, and they're like. Hmm, I wonder where they went.
Speaker 1:As they both think about Shelly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and what?
Speaker 1:is this what?
Speaker 2:Oh, max and Newton Get into it Because they're both frustrated let's be so for real. And so they end up fighting and Newton actually fights back and Max is like huh huh, and he has this like I don't remember the persona that he's created online, but he has like this WW what?
Speaker 2:would so-and-so do in his like dialogue, and so he's like he would fight back. Oh, ww dialogue, and so he's like he would fight back, oh, w-w-a-m-d. So as soon as they have that frustration out, they're like all right, what do you think happened to Sparks Plugs? Yeah, they're just like yeah, and they think that obviously Shelly took them. Good old game of hide and seek, fetch, boys fetch. And they're like let's go find him.
Speaker 1:Nah, I would beg you to just help me make oars out of sticks and be like can we just let Shelly do what he's going to do? Oh, greed, like I'm not going to go, I'm not going to play the game. No, I don't play games. No, mind games, emotion, no, any more. Yes, over that we have graduated.
Speaker 2:Um, agreed, I think I would have done that day two, like okay, let's build some oars then and get out of here. Could we be?
Speaker 1:building slingshots to like taunt the military Like they won't keep ignoring us if we attack them enough. Like they'll come tell? Us yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh boys Sissme, can you get me out of here?
Speaker 1:There's a lot of crazy stuff happening. I'll bet another country's military is stronger. It could come get me, you weak ass.
Speaker 2:I couldn't put this in here. Oh, china, china, I heard they have bigger boats. Yeah, hello, yeah, yeah, oh yeah um, I would. I would have been gone by this point. Uh, actually, I'm gonna try and swim so they'll see me in the water. Maybe they'll come get me. Yeah, get me self. Uh, that door that's on the cabin, yeah, I could use that. Yep, I could use that.
Speaker 1:I guess not, jack, there is enough room for both of us.
Speaker 2:If not, we're going to tie logs to the other side of it.
Speaker 1:See we got this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we would have been gone.
Speaker 1:And then I want the Pirates of the Caribbean theme song to play while we're doing it.
Speaker 2:Okay. So the boys are on their way to find Shelly. Yep, this part is the grossest thing of this entire book. It was really weird. I hated this. This grossed me out so bad, so we're gonna get through it. Okay. So they end up tracking down Shelly by the scent because, oh, yeah, the ketosis when they talked about that.
Speaker 1:I chuckled to myself about like just dieting and stuff.
Speaker 2:I'm like so, oh, the boys do end up smelling, shelly. Essentially it's a sweet gross stench that the people who contract this get. Gross stench of app, the people who contract this gift and then they end up finding this like cave and they're like going down in it. They're terrified. And Shelly says that he heard them coming. He's all very excited about it. Silly little boys trying to get back to their silly little home. But they're silly little families and um, yeah, he talks about like he they could be daddies too.
Speaker 1:we can all be daddies and raise them together, and it just the way that he says this is so disturbing what a lovely idea.
Speaker 2:And then, as they're like coming into the cave, they can hear like the noise of the worms and uh, get me up on the silent I would be so done, and I'm.
Speaker 1:I'm a little ashamed, but not too ashamed to admit that if I knew there was no way out of this contagion, I would remove myself from the situation. I've been given the opportunity for it to get me.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Sorry, see, here's the thing. I'm going on my own terms, Not that.
Speaker 2:What would be me is I would be up in those trees. You can't find me. I'm not making a sound. I'm not coming down. I don't care Like these boys are seeing themselves out in their own like twisted game plan. Bird's eye view. I'm going to know they're all gone at some point. The military is going to come here at some point and still can't find you.
Speaker 1:And I'm going to be up in this tree.
Speaker 2:Yoo-hoo, the lone survivor. Like I'm not, because they're gonna think everyone's dead, and I'm gonna be up in the tree chewing on these leaves.
Speaker 1:And not because you're hungry. No because I can't say that.
Speaker 2:I'm just chill, like my eyes are seeing some shit, okay, so anyway, they're down in this cave, and the way that they describe Shelly, I felt like I was there.
Speaker 1:They did it so well Fowl.
Speaker 2:So they describe him like hunched in this cave and he's like a spider. And his arms he's like crawling down. His arms he's like crawling down and he's just like yes, yes, yes, it was so creepy. And his arms and his legs like a gargoyle up on a little yeah yeah, and he's just skin and bones and the way, except for he's just like got this beach ball of a stomach cause his babies are in there.
Speaker 1:And you can like see the shape of what they are.
Speaker 2:It's moving and he's like crawling around and it's so so so gross. And he's naked also.
Speaker 1:Cause. Who needs that yeah?
Speaker 2:and, uh, he's like crawling towards them and they're, uh, at one point he like gets on top of newton and he's like get off me, get off me. And they're like poking him with their stick that they made and Shelly's stomach it just bursts all over Newton and it is just foul.
Speaker 1:It's really bad, Like this was gnarly.
Speaker 2:This was really really gross, which then I feel horrible for Newton Charlie.
Speaker 1:This was really really gross, which then I feel horrible for Newton, because now I mean he had done so good and not been exposed.
Speaker 2:He didn't deserve this.
Speaker 1:No, and this is how he gets exposed, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then we get to an interview style and we find out that two years ago the doctor was actually put on a watch list to be like watched the guy who made this um, because he was pretty dangerous, um, and that's when we end up finding that the person who signed off on the papers for that one guy to have leave, that guy's uh fingerprints were found on the door. So it's definitely like speculated that this was all planned. So that's when we find that out.
Speaker 1:And they thought that this island would be safe to watch it all play out. Yeah, like they really didn't. The people in charge in the military weren't like well, let's wait till the kids get here, because I want to see what it does, Like that was a that was a oopsie.
Speaker 2:Which is interesting. Like why wouldn't you let it play out like it did for all your other test subjects? Like why? Why? Uh-huh, well, because we wrote they wrote a book about it, but anyway, yep. So as they come out of the cave, max and Newton, newton is like don't come near me Because it's all over him. And so he decides that he's going to go wash up in the ocean and see, like, if that will help, which I'm like no, the water isn't safe anymore either. Oh see, my thought was the water's killing everything. Heck yeah Go wash up in that ocean at that point.
Speaker 2:Well, wash up anyway, because gross. But he comes back to camp after he's washed up and they go to sleep and when max wakes up, uh, newton tells him that he took the mushrooms and they work like he's violently ill. But as this bile and things are coming up like you can see the parasites in there, so I had a little, a little hope there for him. Um, sometime in the morning a helicopter comes across the sky, max like yells at it, like help us, help us.
Speaker 2:Um and it's like cool story bro, and flutters off yeah, they also end up discovering or thinking, like newton starts thinking about I wonder who built them and built what the worms? Because they're just like too perfect and like taking stuff out where they start to question if they were engineered. They also have hope that maybe Kent swam back to the mainland.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, he's too strong to take down like that. That was really sad. Um, it's getting hot in here summer. Um, then they end up looking into newton's eye because he can feel something and there is like a tiny worm in his eye, but it's not like around his eye, it's in his eye, and uh, so that's very sad, yeah, and uh, they also. Max decides that he needs to go get those spark plugs, and so he does. This is all just very gross. He ends up like slipping and touching Shelly's body, which is moving, but like not on his own, and so like whatever's in him is still alive, yep, which is crazy.
Speaker 1:It mutated again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now it can survive outside of the host. Yeah, so it's mutated to that point. This is just icky. They've like cocooned up into Shelly's body and they're like all wrapped together. Long story short Shelly does or not Shelly sorry, max does get the spark plugs from the cave and Shelly's body is still being used as, like an incubator type situation. So fucking gross, just so gross, so gross.
Speaker 2:When Max gets back, newton is awake and there's like a patch of gauze over his eye and the other eye is still there, cloudy and gone. But yeah, it's having some issues, um, and he's like I got the spark plugs, um, and newton like doesn't think that he should go because he's infected and, uh, max really does not want to leave him there, like he has this internal thing of like Literally the way.
Speaker 1:I would like just duct tape your mouth shut and be like sit in the corner of the boat, shut your face. Yeah, you cannot breathe on me. I'm not leaving you out here, but like yeah, oh, it's just so sad.
Speaker 2:He's like you sit in the front of the boat, I'll sit in the back, we won't touch, and they won't have any reason not to take me, Because that's Newton's big thing is like. I don't want them to not take you because I'm infected, so selfless. And so they get into the boat and they start going and Newton has his sash on with all his little badges that he's earned. It's so hard.
Speaker 1:To try to show that they're like good people and worthy of being. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Rescue. So sad and uh, they get to like where the military boats are and the lights like shone on them. To like where the military boats are and the lights like shown on them and um.
Speaker 1:Newton stands up and he's like I'm fine, I'm all aces.
Speaker 2:The only thing is I'm so very, very hungry and as soon as he said that snipe in the water, he goes uh, and max like doesn't even have time to react, because then like the red dot is on him and he's like you know, I'm clean, I'm safe I'm, healthy I'm fine, please no.
Speaker 2:So we get the interview perspective of the man who end up taking that shot and he said that was one of the words, that if that was said it was like on site, like it's a trigger word for them. Um, so it was really sad and that really haunts him. The guy like he's like I can't imagine I never went to school for this and trained and did all this stuff to think that I would take the life of a little kid Like you. Don't think that haunts me, because they're questioning him obviously about it.
Speaker 1:What is he going to do? Defy orders and be dishonorably discharged and ruin his life.
Speaker 2:So then we find that Max is in this facility where, like he's in like paper gowns, and every time he changes his clothes they have to be burned, they test on him, they do all these things.
Speaker 1:So it's like is he really free and alive?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so he's clear, but they still have to like keep him in here and they say that he the person who came to like interview him, says that he doesn't actually remember a lot of what happened on the island, but he remembers like a lot of. What he does remember is like how he feels about his friends. So less of the horrific stuff, more of like or I guess it's probably like what he'll talk about, because we do see that he does actually remember um, but like he talks about like newt would have been the best dad and um you know, ephraim was his best friend and tim was just you know, he'd been there for him and taught him all these things and like he didn't deserve that um the poor guy sitting there like like thinking about it.
Speaker 2:Kent. He like still finds it really hard that he's gone because he was like Superman the doctor. Yeah, dr Briggs was the coolest adult Like. He treated him like he was a grown-up and he really respected that Shelly. There was just something wrong with him and he's not so sad about Shelly, to be honest, and he knows that's a bad thing to say.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll bet Shelly's not even sad that Shelly's gone. Shelly doesn't know what sad is.
Speaker 2:Um, and one thing that did really stick with him was there was this turtle and he struggles with that a lot. Um, when he starts talking about the turtle, he gets really worked up, and then they ask the reporter to leave.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they were like you're done.
Speaker 2:He's too upset. Yeah, he's too upset and it's really sad. We also get a little inbox message to Alex Marksonon who, oh, yeah, the false persona, yeah, newton's false persona and it's this girl being like oh, I haven't seen, heard from you and it's this girl that he like has a crush on, but she's like out of his league or whatever. And she messages him like, oh, I haven't seen you post anything in a while, like with all this crazy stuff happening in town, like just wanted to reach out and see if you were okay, so sad.
Speaker 2:Good old Trudy Dennison, no. So we do find that Alex is or not Alex, sorry, Max is released. That facility, facility, once they find out that he is fine. Um, he still, you know, he's not allowed to go to school because nobody feels safe with him there. He doesn't really have any friends, he misses his friends and that's really sad. The military still comes and tests on him and like he's got to go through all these things like all the time to make sure that he's not contagious. So like even though he's lived, his life is ruined, Like his life is never going to be the same.
Speaker 2:And one morning there was a poster tacked to his front door. And one morning there was a poster tacked to his front door. It was a carnival poster saying like the amazing worm boy, it's very sad, people are mean. At one night his mom made sweet and sour pork for dinner and the smell was just so familiar of that, like the smell of the people who got it where, like he freaked out and wouldn't stop screaming and like they had to throw it out. It was like oh, very, very sad. So he struggles a lot and like anytime he goes to the doctors, the doctors all like suit up and wear masks and he says like sometimes he wants to rip it off and, uh, cough into the stupid sucker's fish face. The amazing world boy strikes again. So Max ends up taking a boat and going to the island. When he gets to the island it's like scorched, like everything is gone, and it says like a nameless hunger was building inside of him and it nodded his guts and his teeth and called his name.
Speaker 1:That's where the book like what the fuck that ending? So what the fuck do?
Speaker 2:you think that he's like? Do you think that he does have it like? What are your thoughts on that? No, I don't think he does. What do you think? Like he's saying, the hunger is.
Speaker 1:I'm not too sure. I have a real, like stupid wild theory that like, like, maybe this thing can mutate so much that it knows how to talk to the host's mind to try to encourage you to come closer.
Speaker 1:So that it can infect you Maybe, yeah, like or yeah, maybe there was like one egg in his brain and it started. It got close enough that it could, like echolocation, talk the way whales talk, like maybe that's how the worms are talking to each other there was this um, so I looked it up afterwards because I was like I wonder, like what the theories are.
Speaker 2:So I went on reddit, because you know, that's where we find all of our stuff and one one person said like maybe it's the PTSD of it, like he's hunger for like what he had, or maybe like that kind of thing, like the mental aspect of it. Another person talked about the fact that all throughout the book which this is where I'm leaning All throughout the book they talk about how resilient it is and how they weren't sure how it was spreading and that it could be airborne, it could be liquid, it could be this could be that. So maybe when they lit that area on fire, it became airborne, yeah, and so as he got closer to it, he can't, he contacted it. Oh, I contacted it, contracted it, and so now he does have it oh my god, I like that theory because that makes sense.
Speaker 2:They say a lot of things that are toxic, like don't light them on fire, that causes a whole thing. Yeah, the jasmine flower that's immediately what I thought of, so I was leaning towards that oh, that's so sad. Yeah, it was good though it was gross, I was leaning towards that. Oh, that's so sad.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah, it was good, though it was gross. Yeah, this was the nastiest thing I'd ever read.
Speaker 2:That cave scene I don't think will ever leave my mind.
Speaker 1:No, I've had a hard time with a lot of specific foods.
Speaker 2:Fair, I don't know. I'm glad I just finished it this morning, yeah fair.
Speaker 1:I'm glad I just finished it this morning, yeah hi everyone.
Speaker 2:This is Connor, producer on when Girls Talk Books. During recording we had some issues with our video capture, so we're going to have to cut that episode short, but come back next week to find out who Kylie and Susie chose for their fan cast.
