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When Girls Talk Books
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When Girls Talk Books
Ep.18 Out of The Woods
We explore Hannah Bonman-Young's romance novel "Out of the Woods," a story about high school sweethearts Sarah and Caleb who attend a wilderness couples retreat to save their 16-year marriage after a fundraiser disaster reveals deeper relationship issues.
• Sarah experiences an identity crisis after feeling like Caleb always swoops in to fix her problems
• The "Reignite" couples retreat forces them to confront communication issues through hiking and exercises
• Sarah struggles with wanting independence while Caleb doesn't understand why his helping is problematic
• The couple works through Sarah's desire to have purpose beyond being a wife
• A dramatic accident forces both to reassess what truly matters in their relationship
• The epilogue shows both partners finding fulfillment—Sarah as a successful writer and Caleb redirecting his business toward charitable work
• Both characters maintain their decision to remain child-free throughout the story
Check out our mini-episode where we try some of the communication exercises from the book! Follow us on social media for more book discussions and recommendations.
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Editing done by Connor Luther @clfilms.co
Music by @thundercatlouis
Merch Here
hello. Hello everyone, and welcome back to another story time with when girls talk books. I'm kylie, I'm suzy and if you are one of our audio listeners, just an fri. We are out here in the wild wilderness of the pacific northwest. It's very beautiful. If you'd like to join us on our youtube channel to check out the views, feel free. So we did out of the woods by hannah bondman, young okay this was a romance.
Speaker 1:Let's start with our star ratings four out of five, three and a half, okay, nice, I did like it. It was good. Yeah, I have notes okay on you know just the story in general. I just have a little bit of notes okay, um, but I think it was good overall.
Speaker 2:Agreed, not, not mad caleb, I love you caleb. Oh caleb, so, so sweet and not sweet. Shall, we, we shall.
Speaker 1:Chapter one Main character has a full crash out. Yes, so our main couple is Sarah and Caleb, and they have been together for like 16 years.
Speaker 2:Jeez, who's been together since high school too.
Speaker 1:I have no idea. So they've been together for a long time and so the story starts with her hosting this auction and it is in a fundraiser for ALS research, which we do get a lot of flashbacks of her mom who passed away, of ALS, and it's really like Caleb really holds steady for her and he's really like integrated into that family. So we see the progression of you know, things are okay and they're going to prom to then things are really not okay and he's really supporting her to them getting married really young so that way her mom can be there and to eventually her mom passing away. So Sarah grew up in a apartment with her mom, her Aunt June and Wynne which Aunt June isn't really her aunt, but they're best friends. Her mom and her are best friends. So then Wynne and her are best friends. So then Wynne and her are best friends, which I do believe. The story before this is Wynne and Bo's story. Oh, cute. So this is the second in a series.
Speaker 2:Technically, this is like the second time we've done this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're good at this, well fun fact, this was a blind book that I got got at maggie mays and gresham no shit. Yeah, so this was the one that I got and I was really excited about it.
Speaker 2:I bet you even told me and I already forgot. Sorry, I'm such a forgetful friend.
Speaker 1:It's not that I don't care, I just forget a lot, hey we just know it's okay bonus I can tell you stories multiple times.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so really, and I will like re-react If I need to get something off my chest- Back in the boat.
Speaker 1:The fundraiser, she set it up and she really just went from zero to a hundred for this, zero to a thousand and it wasn't a success. So she's like upset in the bathroom and Wynn comes in and she's like trying to console her and she goes back out and they had like doubled the money that they had raised her. In like 10 minutes, yes, and Caleb ended up donating like $100,000. Sweet Caleb, but like Bro, okay To me. I like Caleb was so kind in what he was doing, like he had zero malicious intent.
Speaker 2:It's so true, Like, and he wasn't really ever going to actually tell her that it was him that was the donor. So I understand her crash out, but had she, why'd she got to choose sweet Caleb?
Speaker 1:Yeah, she is pissed. She's pissed about this, this. She's so mad that now she feels like the fundraiser was like pointless and she's very angry at him. But she goes back into the room, she does her speech about like thank you all for coming, and then they kind of have a semi-public uh argument at the fundraiser on stage awkward, which is awkward and then she storms off and uh, caleb like stops and says bye to win and bow and she's like, oh, he's a better friend than I am too. So, like immediately she has a lot of like anger towards him for just like existing, being good, yeah, just like being a good guy. She has a lot of like anger towards him. Um, and then they end up like going into this closet and they have this big fight about it and she's like it's my fundraiser and I wanted to do it and like of course you had to come in with your savior complex and all this stuff. So they have this big old blowout about it.
Speaker 1:God, like so sorry I really didn't like her in the beginning of this. I barely liked her at the end you're good.
Speaker 2:Don't worry about it, sarah. You had a perfectly nice, sweet husband. Let's find another way to mess it up, jesus he likes.
Speaker 1:So sabotage to a t self-sabotage, yeah, all the time um, throughout the book he's a phenomenal husband, partner, person, like. He's just a really kind guy, wholesome, pure good lord. Yes and um. They go on to explain like this has been caleb's role to her throughout their entire relationship. He has always been the person to like, solve her problems essentially, and be there for her, and we're fucking sarah somebody solves all her problems like while her mom was dying, like he was the one to help her and pick her up and like that's just been the roles in the relationship.
Speaker 2:So it doesn't make sense to him that she's mad at him about it yeah, like I'm doing what you wanted me to do all this time and now you're mad at me for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but like he doesn't know how else to be in that relationship. Like what else is he supposed to do? Yeah, which they've been together for like 16 years. Like it makes sense that he'd be like well, there's this problem, I'm gonna fix it. Like that's how your entire relationship has went.
Speaker 1:So yep so they, after the fundraiser, they don't talk for like a week. We don't talk anymore. We don't talk anymore. Um, and it's really awkward and she doesn't really know what to do. So they have her and win have like this girl's night, essentially, and she's going on about like the statistics of marriages that end in divorce and like the statistics of getting married at 19 and what that looks like, and win's like really like thinking you're gonna get divorced over this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's like well, it's not uncommon for people to do this so when's like, when I was reading that part of the book, I was like, oh my god, I hope her friend like shakes her. I would hope that you'd be like bruh why are we looking at statistics here?
Speaker 1:also, is this that big of a deal, like, um? So when essentially kind of talks her down a little bit and says there is this uh, I don't know camp type thing called reignite that these therapists put on, yeah, couples retreat, um, I think you guys should at least check it out. And she's like caleb in the woods and wins like that man loves you, he would do anything for you. Oh, which like?
Speaker 1:duh come on um. And so she's like well, I'll bring it up to him. So then she does bring it up to him and he's like are you sure we can't just get a therapist in town? Like do you really think, do you really need me to go?
Speaker 2:into the woods for this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, here I am in the woods. But he's like can't we just find a therapist in town? Like is this really? Do we really need this? And she's like we really need this. And I feel like for him, you really need this, sarah.
Speaker 2:Let's be, so for real. She should have gone.
Speaker 1:Let's be so for real, and to him, like we don't see his point of view, but I imagine for him and he kind of talks about this a little bit like he didn't realize that she was so unhappy with how things were going to that they're at this point.
Speaker 2:I don't understand how she's so unhappy with how things are going. She's got an easy life, doesn't have to work, could choose to do whatever she wants. Sweet, attractive, smart husband yeah, sounds awful. Who would support?
Speaker 1:her through anything. You poor thing yeah, Like if.
Speaker 2:I only knew. Oh my God.
Speaker 1:That's definitely how I felt. Yeah, so he ends up agreeing to do this retreat and he gets kind of excited about it. He goes to the stores. He's like picking out all their gear, like getting all this advice. Horrible man here, just the worst sarah run for the hills, got their hiking backpacks, all this stuff and uh, so they're going to.
Speaker 1:It's called Reignite is the trip, and immediately my thought is Sarah's obviously the one who needs this. Yes, caleb is just going to support her and be do whatever. And he mentioned something in the car about like if this is what you need, like I'm more than happy to do this with you. And she's like it's not just for me, it's for us and you could benefit from this with you. And she's like it's not just for me, it's for us and you could benefit from this too. And he's like right, like it's just weird, but so we're at day one of Ignite and they meet all the other people. They have this argument in the car about he needs to be benefiting from this too, and there's stuff that he needs to work on too.
Speaker 2:I guess, if you're not fighting in the car all the way to a couple's retreat. What are you doing?
Speaker 1:What are you even doing and they meet the other couples and a lot of those couples go every year, so we get to know them throughout the story. We're not going to take too much time on them, just to be honest, only like a couple of them are actually funny yeah.
Speaker 1:But, to be honest, only like a couple of them are actually funny. Yeah, there's a few couples that they end up connecting with and they they end up having long standing relationships with, while they're all getting ready and they're waiting for Helen and Yvonne. Yvonne, the couples are telling them that there's a no sex rule While you're, while you're on the retreat.
Speaker 1:There's there's a no sex rule while you're, while you're on the retreat there's, they have a no sex, that's it going home, because that's the only thing these two have going for them. Apparently she's like what, sorry what? And she packs her baby wipes. Just in case.
Speaker 1:Can never be too prepared, advice from win to pack baby wipes um, that's a good friend, you know telling you the advice you might not want to hear, but, like girl, pack the baby wipes, you're gonna need these um, and so then yvonne and helen come and they have their granddaughter libby, who I'm pretty sure her name's libby, yep, yeah, um, her mom, or her parents, have recently passed away, so now the grandparents have custody of her.
Speaker 2:And can you imagine being a 10-year-old stuck going on an old people's marriage retreat, backpacking? I would throw myself up in the sillside.
Speaker 1:No, thank you.
Speaker 2:I would rather die.
Speaker 1:And for a 10-year-old, specifically Boo Boring, boring. I'm like for a 10 year old, specifically like boo boring. But so we meet all of our characters and they say, okay, we're gonna start hiking. It's 15 kilometers. I did the math here. For us it's 9.32 miles in a day, in a morning, I guess. No, caleb and Sarah are both like 15 kilometers.
Speaker 2:Jiminy crickets, I feel like we're going on an adventure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in the shape that I am now, I would die it's probably five miles, yeah, five Nine. You took nine, yeah, nine miles on your first day. On your first day.
Speaker 2:You're not even going to ease me into it. Actually, I might be so pissed if I was in that setting where I'm having marital issues, I could just walk it off All the steam.
Speaker 1:I have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no problem, just charge through the wilderness.
Speaker 1:It also feels like she's the only one having marital problems.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and like she's a victim of herself as well. Yeah, for the poor baby jean and he fucking crickets.
Speaker 1:I'll just say it now because I'm gonna say it at some point. This could have very easily been solved if she had proper communication skills, if they both did one therapy appointment and like looked at herself in the mirror.
Speaker 2:But so many women I don't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're never the problem like what do I want out of this? Easy yep, it could have been what do I want for myself?
Speaker 1:good thing she didn't overreact and like communicated that to him. It would have been Because you know, he would have been like, okay, yeah, I think that sounds great, this is what I want. You know, can we do this? Yeah, anyway, I think that's part of the reason why I rated this three and a half stars was because it was like this could have very easily been solved, like I don't know. I didn't feel like this was a really big ordeal in my opinion.
Speaker 2:So sorry, yep, in my opinion well, we live a life with like real problems, so that's why we like see this and we're like okay I'm sorry that you're bored.
Speaker 1:Get a job. Let's see this.
Speaker 2:Facts, mike. Okay, I'm sorry that you're bored. Get a job. Let's see how many fucking problems you have.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God, God. So Sarah is a stay-at-home wife who doesn't really do anything, yep, and she feels like by choice, by choice, that's the thing If you're choosing to not do anything, yeah.
Speaker 1:And you're choosing to not do anything. Yeah, and you're not doing anything about that. Yeah, and she's wanted to be a writer. She wanted to be a writer when she was younger and she even, like, won this contest and she got to meet this author um cecilia floodgate and cecilia was not very nice to her and was essentially like I think you're writing is shallow and yada, yada, yada.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, she got one bad constructive criticism and like fell apart.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so she just gave it up and was like I'm not going to do this Weak. So I just feel like, yeah, she had a lot of stuff that she needed to think about what she wanted to do and he would have been receptive to that. But anyway, okay, so day one, they hike a ton.
Speaker 2:Sarah's the worst Day one. Nine miles. Caleb's sweet. They have issues here. We are at camp.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're at camp. There's like this picnic set up for day one, so they get real food and they are so sore that Caleb like drags her to bed. Like literally he man drags her into the bed because he's also sore, and then she's like I forgot my water. Can you get it for me?
Speaker 2:I thought it was the worst, but you'll let him carry you around and get your water and you know, OK, got it the worst. Yeah, what an asshole. Look at him.
Speaker 1:For real. So he ends up dragging her to bed and then he I don't remember how this comes about he charged her e-reader and brought her a solar charger so that way she could read before bed and she would have the battery life, so that way she didn't have to redo her reading streak. This is our biggest problem. It was the sweetest thing ever. Day one, day two I have these separated by days.
Speaker 2:Well that's kind of how the book went too, for the sake of like getting through this too until we get towards the end.
Speaker 1:Then it's a little wishy-washy, but okay. So day two, um, they end up hiking separately, so the boys go together and the girls go together and, um, there is one couple who is same-sex couple and they just kind of split, as well as Helen and Yvonne. They're married and they split differently, and she has this word vomit a little bit about what we already talked about, that she's a housewife and she doesn't, like, have any purpose. Essentially, identity crisis.
Speaker 2:That's what this girl is having yeah, she's having an identity crisis.
Speaker 1:Definitely, and she wants to fail or succeed by herself and she doesn't want Caleb to help her. Do you think maybe you could have just said that to him, like hey, I really appreciate what you did at the fundraiser, but like I really wanted this to be all mine and like I wanted to fail or succeed one way or another, and like I know that she didn't want to fail.
Speaker 2:She just run a fucking baby fit when she felt I can't believe you didn't do anything to help me. I can't believe you didn't tell me this was a bad idea.
Speaker 1:I can't believe it when and caleb both tried to tell her do you think this is a bit much for your first fundraiser? That you did yes, and she was like no, I want to do this, which you know. She needs to feel like she has a purpose and she doesn't feel that way. There are different ways she could go about this. Yeah, her communication skills are horrible I felt like a good communicator.
Speaker 2:After reading this book I'm like oh no, actually same.
Speaker 1:This whole thing could have been solved with one conversation. What you're looking at?
Speaker 1:I just saw something trees yeah um, okay, her and helen have this conversation where helen asked her why are you so resentful of caleb because that's really what it comes across as is she is so resentful towards him when he's really kind of always tried to help her and like why do you feel that way? Like why do you feel like this is caleb's fault and like have these harsh feelings towards him? And she essentially comes out and says like she just wants caleb to feel proud of her, which he does. She could do anything and he'd be proud of her. But like she wants that. Like look at my wife, look how amazing she is and what she does, and she's just the best.
Speaker 2:And she doesn't feel like she has that right now and she also has a little bit of like deep and valid, like it's valid why she feels this way, but like she feels out of place compared to his family.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, that's a big issue.
Speaker 2:And that's hard, Like when you don't feel accepted by your husband's family. It can be really hard to feel like you're a part of the family.
Speaker 1:Yeah, his family is a bit rough and like she doesn't have a C name and so she's like maybe that's why I don't fit in, and when they got engaged it was really awkward and weird. Yeah, she's never really felt like she fit into his family, but he very much loves her family and that dynamic and he feels very comfortable there because even he doesn't really get along with his dad specifically. Yeah, so after the hike they camp and her and caleb have this conversation and essentially caleb tells her like I am so scared, like I did not know that you weren't happy, and like it's kind of like a shock to him because he's like where is all this?
Speaker 1:coming from yeah, I thought we were fine and I'm and I'm okay in the comfortable. And she's like so you never want to grow, you never want to change. And he's like well, I thought we were fine. Like, if we're okay, like why do we need to change? It ain't broke, don't fix it. Yeah, that's very much his mentality and she hates that. She is like so we're never gonna change, we're just always gonna be. What were they like? 14 when they got together? Um, and he's like uh, so they fight about that? Because he's like there's nothing wrong with being comfortable and I, I'm very comfortable in the comfortable. Essentially is what it is. So then he gets really mad. He goes to bed and he says let me have a moment before you come to bed.
Speaker 1:So, she, she ends up going again. I went to one of the other people and you know, sometimes it really has an evening. Yeah, she's like man. Maybe Nina would take me into the woods and she'd be like, oh here, look what I have. And then that's exactly what happens. Day three Helen has communication exercises for the group.
Speaker 1:Cue our mini episode Haven't watched our mini episode. Please do you know we have our own. Yeah, we made it our own for sure. Please do we did our own? Yeah, we made it our own for sure. But it was still cute and fun and it has little nods to the story. So they go out in this field and essentially it's the exercise where you have to untangle each other so you're like all kinds of twisted up. I hate that game. I don't like people that much to be that close to everybody.
Speaker 2:I'm a clammy girl too, so you want me to like.
Speaker 1:Get all touchy now I hear it all the time. I'm like give me your hand. I'm sweaty, yeah, every time. No, I'm sweaty like suzy, I know I know this about. We've been together as long as caleb and sarah have been together. I know about your clammy hands. We should do one of these backpacking couples trips?
Speaker 1:it's essentially what we're doing. So they do the exercise where they have to untangle each other and we learn during this. Uh, caleb is to uh sarah's anger, I guess you could say he's just too good at some stuff and like that's just kind of how his brain works. If he's like well, if we just do this, this and this, like we're untangled, I felt like I felt like I was watching just too good at some stuff and like that's just kind of how his brain works if he's like, well, if we just do this, this and this, like we're untangled I felt like.
Speaker 2:I felt like I was watching my husband eric in that situation, because he can problem solve things like that or directionally, and I'll just be like okay, her way of things would have made it worse his way of things. They did get untangled and it like was so quick and when you're already kind of mad and then they're right, like sarah's pretty angry about that. Yeah, for once I'm understanding of her, like, okay, yes, I'd be mad too yeah, especially if you're already fighting like Like come on, anyway, anyway.
Speaker 1:So then after the exercises they do a few of them. Caleb guides everybody. Sarah's pissed. So after this, yvonne wants to go on a walk with Sarah. And Yvonne is much more of the kind of like spiritual vibes lady. She walks around barefoot, she's very like calm mellow. She just has a different vibe.
Speaker 2:I thought of the characters grace, and frankie, where yvonne and yeah, that's fair, that's a good cast um.
Speaker 1:And so yvonne says we're gonna take a walk later because, and sarah's like, oh great, I'm the worst one I'm taking a time out for solo therapy, like no one else has um, so they go on this walk and they go up to this like edge and they have a talk and sarah goes a lot into like her mom and she also. One of her pieces that she's struggling with is she wants to be great for her mom because her mom did die when she was younger. And like she has all this life and what is she doing with it?
Speaker 2:nothing like she just you should be mad at yourself, sarah.
Speaker 1:You're the one not doing anything and she, um, one of the things is she was going to go to school. I don't know when this is brought up, but she was going to go to school and Caleb gently encouraged her not to, because her mom had just passed away so it really wasn't good timing, but she was too prideful to kind of say that, so she was just kind of she wanted to do it. Caleb gently encouraged her not to and then she never went back. But also during this, yvonne does point out that Caleb is a helper and that's where he's comfortable and that's how your entire relationship has been and he's very comfortable in his role.
Speaker 1:But she says that he's the helper, that is his role, and I felt it he's the helper, that is his role, and I felt like that made so much sense to me, so like I'm definitely the helper In our relationship, in any relationship, I'm the helper, I'm the fixer, like that's just who I am. And so if somebody got mad at me for helping, I'd be like I don't know what to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah for helping. I'd be like I don't know what to do. Yeah, like I don't know what to do with this. I used to carry a lot of bunny trail, short bunny trail. I used to carry a lot of guilt in our friendship because I felt like I wasn't doing enough, but then I finally realized like no, that's where you shine, is you do? That like you're not less than suzy. She wants you to just come along for the ride. And then it was like, oh my god I feel like you're very good.
Speaker 1:We're just being all kinds of cutesy vibes. Yeah, we are. Um, I feel like you're very good at like voicing what I think so like, for example, with this camping trip, like you very much were like let me know what you need, and I know you have this, but I don't want you to feel like you have to take the mental load for all of this yes, like it's not your job to do it all, just send, like I'm gonna go ahead and get this stuff at the store, if that's cool, and I'll let you know what I finished yes, exactly so.
Speaker 1:It was like you knew. Just tell me what to bring. He exactly like I didn't have to say it, and so I feel like you're very good at knowing what I'm thinking and saying, like I know, like you're not saying, I know this is what you're thinking, but like I know this is a lot and I know this load is a lot. Let me carry some, because I am the helper.
Speaker 2:Whole friendship. Yeah, we're like this sucks. Let me come sit with you.
Speaker 1:Because I am such a helper and I'll just take more and more and more. Where you're like, let me take you like you, just take more and more and more where you're like, let me take some off of you. You're like you, my own needs, oh, fuck those, yeah. Where like, I don't have to say it to you, where you're just like, let me take this, yeah.
Speaker 2:Here I come.
Speaker 1:Help is on the way dear, exactly, exactly. That one brain cell bouncing back and forth. It works, but like if I was trying to help you with something and you got mad at me about it, I don't know what I would do. You're right, I would think she hates me yeah, she hates me, and then you'd be like you with my friendship, yeah, and then, knowing you, you'd be like I'm not mad at you, I'm just gonna do I'm overstimulated and the tag in my shirt was rubbing against me too much and I was sweating um, okay, so back to the story.
Speaker 2:She's in time out with the leader because she's the worst of them all and she knows it.
Speaker 1:And she has this whole spiral about it. But when yvonne says, essentially caleb is a helper and that's like how he knows, that's all he knows how to be in your relationship, um, because the boys also had or I guess the boys and I think yvonne goes with the others um, they had also their own talks and sarah feels very insecure about that and like what did Caleb say about her? Because she did this whole word vomit thing about Caleb. So she kind of gets a kind of a perspective on what he said through Yvonne, because she was there when he, you know, obviously talked about what's going on with them. And so when she gets back to camp she ends up making the paper airplanes. This one, I did not make this one because in school she wrote her number on it and threw it to him and he didn't know who. It was pretty good. Um, he didn't know who it was, so he it. He didn't know who it was, so he didn't end up texting her or calling her.
Speaker 2:That was so funny.
Speaker 1:And then later she like cornered him and was like so are we going to do lunch? I think it was lunch Something. Essentially, she's like what's up? Like what are we doing here? We have a problem here, yeah. And so she ends up oh, when she got back, he had like fresh clothes for her and her e-reader and like flowers Mm-hmm, come on. I would have cried, come on, mm-hmm, which also they're like fighting right now, yep. And he still did this gesture Because he's so sweet, so she's like he deserves a gesture too. So she goes out, she picks some flowers and then she ends up like covering their tent in paper airplanes and it's just all these nice things like you're enough for me and I love you.
Speaker 2:Sorry, I'm a bitch. I am ungrateful. What is wrong with me? I should have just gone to therapy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I appreciate you and I want to be with you, and I think that's one of the main things of this story is like they always knew they wanted to be together. They just had been together forever. So it was hard to really work through whatever. It was her crisis that she was going through.
Speaker 2:Yeah, whatever the fuck, it was.
Speaker 1:Crisis of the week, flavor of the month for her um, so they end up having a talk later and he tells her that sometimes it's hard and because sometimes I look at you and I see this fierce woman who can do anything and can take care of anything. But then other times I see you and I just want to protect you because you've been through so much that I don't want anything else to happen to you oh yeah, you're right, lock him up.
Speaker 2:What an asshole.
Speaker 1:So he's like I don't. Sometimes it's hard for me to think, like who did I marry? Did I marry this fierce, independent woman or did I marry this girl that I just want to protect? Who's had all these horrible things happen? Fragile little baby bird? Yes, um, and I thought that was so sweet. I thought that too. I thought that was so sweet. And he ended up writing her a letter while she was gone on her walk and it essentially like of course she did. Yeah, it was so sweet. I don't remember exactly what it said, but long story short, just how much he loves her, how much he wants to be with her and, if this, how sorry he is that he didn't know that she was unhappy and even if they're not together, at the end of this, like she's always going to be this light to him and this reading the letter like I was like going to cry, like how could you be so mean to him to think that?
Speaker 2:think that you actually didn't want to be with this guy.
Speaker 1:She did. Well, she kind of did. I guess she did look at divorce statistics, which is a little bit of a red flag, but to her she doesn't want to be with anybody else, she wants to be with him. They just need to have a proper conversation, yeah. Not paper airplanes yeah Well. Airplanes, yeah Well. That's what started the conversation, so I do think that was a nice gesture of her.
Speaker 2:After dragging him in the woods and basically telling him that he's not good enough. Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1:So man all aboard the Sarah H train. I will be your conductor. It just felt like it was so unnecessary, like this whole book just felt a little unnecessary on her part, like like you could have just talked about it. Hey, I'm feeling like I don't have much of a purpose and I would maybe like to try and do something. Okay, that would have been his response. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Anyway, caleb is a lot like our husbands, so throughout the book I was like, okay, note to self, don't be too mean to my sweet golden retriever angel baby muffin that is supportful of all things.
Speaker 1:I did feel that a little bit Because, like I don't know specifically, like I don't know, I think I'm kind of Sarah, but I'm also kind of Caleb, like I'm the helper in the relationship, but I'm also like I could understand from a partner's point of view of me being very fierce and independent, but also I've had a lot of things happen, so also wanting to protect me from that, but not really knowing how, because those personalities are hard.
Speaker 2:See, we're not fragile like a delicate flower. We're fragile like a delicate flower. We're fragile like bombs. That was so good. That's how my husband describes me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're just fragile like a bomb, honey, oh my god, I felt like, yeah, I really related to this, but I also felt like they just needed to have a conversation about it. But like I feel like I have a purpose. So I don't. I don't really understand where, sarah, I don't really get your fucking deal, girl, but like sure, I'll empathize, I kind of get it. I kind of get like being in a relationship for a long time and wanting to grow and change and like having to do that together how do I do that without losing what I have?
Speaker 1:yeah, unhappy with what I have, but I'm not loving it right now and I also think women change a lot throughout relationships. Like men, they change, sure, but like they're still. They're still boys at the end of the day. Let's be still for real. Like they're get a couple boys out here at camp and they're gonna be doing the silliest things, yeah, where I feel like women overthink a lot for one, so they're always changing and they're always wanting to try something new or be different or do this or do that. Where I feel like boys don't really have that as much and I could be wrong, but that's just kind of. I guess we've never been wrong in our lives. What are you talking about? But I feel like that's like that's a big thing in our relationship. I feel like I always like I'm like I'm gonna try this and do this and do that and and just like okay, okay, here we go, I'm gonna go play games guys, like that I've been doing for the past 16 years. You know, it's just yeah, it's just different.
Speaker 1:So he has his letter, he reads it to her, it's all very sweet, and then they end up saying like this is going to be our new start, so we're finally communicating, so let this be our new start, and he's like I want to show you something. This is all. It took two days of hiking and it's someone to say hey, have you thought maybe, like this is what caleb, like has done for you the past 16 years? Like it probably feels weird to him that now you're mad at him about it. Just a thought, um, so caleb was like I want to show you this thing that I saw today. They end up going rock jumping and, um, they have this conversation. Well, first she tries to seduce him. He doesn't fall for it because of the no sex rule. Um, and she's like oh my god strike one for caleb she has a hard time with it.
Speaker 1:but he's like I want to follow the rules because the people have told them that it's to more focus on your relationship. And he says like I want your heart, I don't want your body. Like I want all of you, not just some of you. And Sarah's like oh, my God. Oh, so sweet If my husband said that I'd be like Sarah's revved up, sarah's revved up, sarah's not having it. I am not taking no for an answer. He like gets out of the water and she's like are you for real, right now.
Speaker 1:Yep, anyway. So they end up having a conversation on the water, and because Helen and Yvonne want them to write down each what they want in 10 years, so that way they can kind of get there together, it ends up coming out Sarah wants to go back to school, she wants to be a writer, which she's always kind of wanted but was discouraged to do it. Okay, he's like great, sure. And Caleb wants to, um, kind of take, take a step back from his company and he wants to start funneling the profits to charity. Perfect. She's like, ah, because he no, he couldn't get any better, right?
Speaker 2:I'm like, of course for real, as if he couldn't get any more wholesome. And then here he comes and you're like yeah, of course, yeah for real.
Speaker 1:And uh, then on the way back, sarah falls and she's like, oh, my knees they're, they're really hurt. And he's like I'll carry you.
Speaker 1:And she's like, okay he clark kents her all the way back to the yeah, so then he ends up picking her up, carrying her back and she's all which. I thought that was kind of fun in the book, like, as much as they have problems, like you know, they love each other. They're revved up for each other, that's for sure. Yep, and she's like, yeah, my mountain man. It's kind of the vibe that she gives, which is fun.
Speaker 2:It was really sweet.
Speaker 1:Then they get back to camp and they have some tent fun. Yeah, it gets a little spicy. Like you know, yeah, look, kill has a different side to him yeah, that's right here, caleb sheesh. Okay, I will say just real quick the spice in this was top tier to me. I thought this was great.
Speaker 2:It was more. It was like realistic, and not in a realistic boring way. It was like perfect.
Speaker 1:It was just kind of like, oh sweet, baby caleb, uh-huh, yeah, yeah, okay, day four. Um, they're hiking again and sarah and libby are hiking together because everybody else is kind of paired up and they have a conversation about their moms. Because Libby doesn't really talk about it, but she kind of feels like her and Sarah, like she can open up to Sarah, because at one point they had like this Libby had taught the girls like a dance routine and they performed it in front of everybody. It was so cute too. It was so cute and Caleb's just watching her Like this is how you used to be and okay, for real, and he just felt like that reminded him a lot of her before her mom died and like seeing her in that light and like how happy it made libby and what good of a heart that sarah has and how she got that from her mom, which he tells her all of this at some point.
Speaker 1:But, um, um, so her and Libby kind of have this link with their moms both passing away, and so they kind of talk about it. And Libby asked Sarah, like does it ever get easier? And she's like I don't think it really gets easier. I think like we just get stronger and you know it's really sweet and you're really strong, libby, because she's 10. And so then then they just kind of talk about their moms a bit and like, well, I used to love cuddling in my mom's bed and Libby talks about she didn't realize her mom was her best friend until she passed away. So sad, it was so sad. But so they have this really nice conversation. Yeah, probably really nice for her conversation, yeah, probably really nice for her. And then they have another exercise on like what hill would you die on?
Speaker 2:That got me so excited. I looked at Eric and I was like the whole exercise is what hill would you die on? And he goes you have a whole mountain range.
Speaker 1:What do you think your hill would be? If you had to say, what would your hill be Right now?
Speaker 2:Specifically, I need like a specific instance, I guess.
Speaker 1:What hill would you die on right now?
Speaker 2:A hill that I would die on right now that those are yellow jackets and not just bees. That's a hill I'm going to fucking die on over there.
Speaker 1:Okay, we have bees at camp. Susie does not like the bees Yellow jackets the worst.
Speaker 2:I hate them.
Speaker 1:They're bees jackets.
Speaker 1:The worst I hate. They're bees. They are a kind of bee, that is true. So die on that hill, girl. Um, but so they have this exercise. What hill would you die on? And sarah's is that she doesn't want kids, and her and caleb have agreed on this. They don't want kids and I spoiler alert I really like that. She stayed true to that throughout the whole entire story. I really like that the representation of women not wanting kids and I feel like that was really well done. They both agreed on it. They both were not going to budge on it. That was her hill that she was going to die on. She doesn't want kids. That would be non-negotiable. And they don't Like, as far as we see, they don't have kids.
Speaker 2:So they don't like, as far as we see, they don't have kids, so I I actually really enjoyed that. It was nice to see both partners be open and respectful on the same page, one lying to the other, hoping that the other one will change their mind yeah, I see a lot of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because he was the same way like nope, I don't want kids. So I I thought that representation was good as somebody who was on the other side of like I'm having kids, I don't care, you don't want kids through hell or high water, that's the hill I'm dying on, like you know. Uh, so that was her hill that she was gonna die on and caleb did not understand the exercise oh yeah, and he did like so many broads and they were so funny yeah I don't remember what they were, do you?
Speaker 1:find it yeah, so caleb's hills he's gonna die on. He said for the record, I agree with my wife on the kid thing, um, but I thought it was a more general prompt. And he said number one um, deep space nine is the superior star trek series. Uh, number two if you put Kelly Clarkson on any season of American Idol, she would have won Facts.
Speaker 2:Facts you can't yeah. Oh, that's the hill I'll die on too.
Speaker 1:Number three there are so many things we could do to get rid of to help the environment, before Outsteam plastic straws. Paper straws are a sensory nightmare.
Speaker 2:Yes, they are.
Speaker 1:All paper products that get wet are sensory hell, uh, number four it's fucked up that people keep birds as pets. Well, uh, he's entitled to his wrong. I think that was it. But he just took it like way, like just what are things that you don't like? And he's distracted. Distracted because Sarah's wearing shorts, which he and she's hiked him up and she hiked him up.
Speaker 1:Yep. So then, after this exercise, they get lost in the woods. Lost in the woods, and tensions are at an all-time high and some things may happen against a rock wall.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, you know, and some things may happen against a rock wall. Okay, yeah, you know. Uh, in my notes there is five chili peppers, that for that chapter. That's all it says. Tree chili pepper, tree chili pepper rock wall, seven chili peppers, um.
Speaker 1:And they're both like oh, oh, my gosh, this was fantastic. And then he's like he has this. I wasn't touching it, sorry, I threw the pen. We're both like, no, sorry, he has this like post, sorry. So on the way back she's like you're real quiet over there and he's like I just want it to be great, like that every time for you. And she's like it, it is, you know. But then he like gets all into his head about it.
Speaker 2:And now I'm spiraling about how I can most properly please you, as always, because all I want to do is make you happy. You make it really hard. He doesn't say that, but that's basically what and she's like that's never been our problem.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like that, that's never been our problem. Yep, like that's never been a problem here. And he's like, oh okay, thank God. So now we're on day five. This is the last day of the hiking portion, so then they're supposed to camp for two days. We do find out there is actually no, no sex rule.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a hazing rule that they all do to the new kids, to any new people Because these people do it over and over.
Speaker 1:And Sarah's like, well, we get to do it next year, like we get to tell anybody new people that like this is a thing, because she's all like you guys got me, yep. So then they break off into their groups and they're hiking the last bit of it and Helen gets a walkie talkie siren and so she puts it up to her ear and Yvonne's on the other side and there has been an accident.
Speaker 2:I immediately started crying when I was reading this part Because I'm like great, it's fucking dead. Great.
Speaker 1:No Great book, kylie Love it. Yeah, dead great. Like no great book. Kylie loved it. Um, and libby had fallen through a bridge, which, in all fairness, her mom and her used to play this game on a bridge. So she went to do it. Caleb went with her. She fell through the bridge and caleb jumped in after her, ended up saving her, and then he fell and he hit his head and it was very traumatic situation. Cut the show, that's it, I'm done. So she runs off to find him and he's just blood everywhere and she's very scared of blood.
Speaker 2:It bothers her a lot.
Speaker 1:Yes, but she was trying to keep it together. Yeah, and he's like so I'm right here, I'm right here and they called the ambulance. So then the ambulance comes, she goes with them and they have to hike him out on a stretcher.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's very traumatic. Libby's hysterical, she feels like it's her fault, she feels like they're gonna hate her and this whole thing. Um, the crew helps them like uh, jai was like give me your bag, like we'll take it, we'll take the car, we'll meet you guys at the hospital. So the group is very like, came together very quickly, supportive, yeah. Um, they end up getting into the hospital and caleb is in the icu and he's gonna be in a induced coma for at least 24 to 48 hours because he has swelling on his brain and win and bo.
Speaker 2:This part made me cry, because that is so something you and justin would do would have just like shown up and be like it's okay, you're gonna be okay, we're all gonna be fine.
Speaker 1:I'm like so win and bo have a little girl, and so they bring her and she's like she can't see Caleb like this.
Speaker 2:It was so I was crying so much through this part of the film I did not cry but I was like I like suspense cry and then when the horrible thing really happens I'm like sad.
Speaker 1:Dang and Sarah has a hard time reasonably when they tell her that he's in the ICU because her mom died in the ICU and Aunt June had told her the ICU is where people go to die, so you need to prepare yourself for that when her mom was in the hospital.
Speaker 1:Yes, so her and Wynne have this whole thing and they come together and she's like it's not the same. It's not the same, like I understand you're freaking out, but like it's going to be OK, you're going to be OK and he's going to be OK. And then so they're waiting. They tell them that Caleb's going to be, you know, in a coma for at least 24 to 48 hours to watch the swelling, and Sarah had called his mom, who they don't have a great relationship. The mom comes out and Caleb is still asleep and while they're in the room together, the dad calls and she's like, oh, you're not going to make it, da-da-da-da-da. And Sarah's like F this. She pulls the phone and is like you need to be here for your wife and you need to tell your buddies that you gotta go, which, like, goes off on him, didn't she?
Speaker 2:call him a precankerous or some.
Speaker 1:She used some, some interesting language. For sure she, she goes off on him essentially and like you need to be here for your wife like how dare you?
Speaker 1:yep, and he was like this is for you and like leaves. And I was like yeah, pop off, queen, and caleb's mom and her end up having like a little bit of a different relationship after that, because sarah is much more receptive and like gives her hugs and it's like it's gonna be okay, and stood up for her towards the husband and then the husband is gonna come because her funny quote in the book like I made him do the right thing.
Speaker 2:I made cyrus do the right yeah, wow, because he's the worst.
Speaker 1:Um, it ends up like the next day or something. They're like okay, we're gonna wake him up, he's gonna be okay, there's no long-term effects. You know that. This was really just in case anything happens. We needed to put him under to kind of get that swelling to come down.
Speaker 2:Cover our bases and make sure we don't get sued. We didn't just kept him asleep.
Speaker 1:I had injuries a little bit in a friend, yeah, and so then it takes about nine hours for him to wake up, and when he finally does, he, you know, is fine.
Speaker 2:Again is perfect and sweet and supportive. And oh honey, don't cry.
Speaker 1:And I'm like and he ends up saying like I realize what's important now and I want to scale back this company immediately, which is very much against what his dad is all about his opposite of how he was raised yeah, it's very much like take those profits and caleb is very much like I want to build a company that people want to be a part of and I want to give back and things like that. So he ends up kind of taking a back seat pretty much immediately in his company.
Speaker 1:So and Sarah is like so thankful of like everything that's happened that got them to this point and blah, blah, blah it was very sweet and then beau and uh, win and the girl, the daughter, show up and it's all like happy and they bring pizza and beau and caleb are good friends, so he's really happy, he's okay and tied up in a little boat. Epilogue yep, um. So, 10 years later, win is on her fourth baby and they're going to the premiere of sarah's play.
Speaker 2:Because she actually went back to be, she went back to school.
Speaker 1:Um, and caleb got a limo because of course he did, because he's the sweetest thing ever and, uh, six years ago she ended up publishing a book called so-called little life, which is based on her mom's story. So that was put into a play and caleb's parents come, and aunt june comes, and it's all very nice. And, uh, they do have a rescue dog who's 10 years old and they named her helen. Yeah, it all very cute. And they did not end up going back to Ignite. They decided the outdoors were not for them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd have been like I don't think so.
Speaker 1:I feel like that kind of was like oh, like I definitely expected them to like go every year to like keep their relationship, this like safe and secure, as they felt like when I guess you could say where I felt like they should have went back I guess, yeah, he could have gone back and just, I don't know not went on a rickety bridge for real. There's a wild idea for real so anyway, they go to the play. What?
Speaker 2:do? I know, I'm just a woman.
Speaker 1:It's a big success. Nina, who ends up being one of her good friends, one of the ladies that was in ignite um, she is now like an Oscar-winning actress, or whatever. She ends up agreeing to be in the place, which is a really big deal. Sarah ends up coming out or getting pulled up on stage to do this speech and at the end of it she says fuck you, cecilia Floodgate, which is the author that discouraged her to do writing. Yeah, and I was like To do writing and I was like, ah, yeah, that feels so good. So it was all very cutesy, tied up in a bow. Yeah, just feel like I, I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I like it. You know I'd probably be bored If that was every book we read, read, but yeah, we, you know, every once in a while.
Speaker 1:Compared to the last book, yeah, I needed a cute little story yeah, I felt like for the most of the book I was like this would be kind of fun to do, like this couples like camping thing, like how fun is that? But I don't know, I don't. I I really just wanted them to keep doing it every year, I think yeah, I see that.
Speaker 2:In my opinion, yeah, but I think it would have made the book better too.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It would have made the book better if they would have kept going every year, because then Yvonne and what's the other one's name, helen, helen could have passed the torch to them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then they could have done it. Yeah, it would have been really fun and cute.
Speaker 2:But they're not therapists. That's true anyway. But there's lots of people that like aren't and pretend to be, so I mean, what's two more exhibit a? Well, we have special qualifications, so we've also never been wrong in our lives so also true, but I thought it was good me too. I I really enjoyed it. Uh, it took me until like a third of the way through, so, but I feel like I'm a broken record. I say that every book. I didn't really like it in the beginning, but like I loved it at the end.
Speaker 1:So it took me a while too and I still was kind of like, okay, okay, okay. But also I was like these two need to get this tension taken care of by the time they finally do. I was like, oh, need to get this tension taken care of by the by, like the time they finally do. I was like, oh, thank god, like I cannot take another chapter of this, so yeah, but it was good fan cast fan cast, fan cast, fan cast.
Speaker 2:What's fan cast, fan cast is if this was a book, or if this was a book, if this was a series or a movie, who would we cast as the characters? So, uh, for sarah, I have jessica chastain. Yep, you don't know you know, that's Okay For Caleb. I have Jack Schumacher from Ransom Canyon, have you seen? Okay, here this one. I'll find you a picture. Add glasses. I don't think I know who that is, he plays yancey I've never seen a ransom canyon oh girl, you want a little.
Speaker 2:You want a little cringy josh, the mall is in it, yeah, yeah, my priorities are way different and well, in that show, yes, yeah, josh, them all yes, but like josh wasn't gonna fit caleb, so I had to pick the other, like semi attractive one that wasn't a teenager, because I was going to look like a pedo. And for Wynn I had Margot Robbie, because I'm basic and a brunette. Margot, sign me up. For Bo, I had a like young Hayden Christensen. This guy, he's the one that plays Darth Vader. I thought Justin would. Or she ate that, fair. Uh, this guy, he's the one that plays. Oh yeah, I thought justin would fair.
Speaker 1:So that's who I had for fan cast um, I only did sarah and caleb because, yeah, everybody else was just kind of background noise who cares don't care, tell us what daddy caleb's up to. That was literally me in the whole book Like anyway. So I did Madeline Pesce for Sarah. Nice, I did do Younger, but also at the same time like Sarah and Caleb are in their late 20s, early 30s, I think. So easy there. And then Caleb, I did Dylan O'Brien.
Speaker 2:Specifically Dylan O'Brien, with a little bit of facial hair. Add the glasses, especially with the comments. Like Caleb looks like he could solve a Rubik's Cube and I would just laugh. Sorry, but she would say that.
Speaker 1:I used to have the most ridiculous crush on Dylan O'Brien, like it was unhealthy. It was unhealthy and then now he's got a little bit of facial hair. I was like Dylan O'Brien, for sure that's going to be my Caleb. So I almost did the new Superman guy. You know what I'm talking about he is.
Speaker 2:I almost did him.
Speaker 1:I don't know who you're talking about, and then I was like I don't know, like, I feel like that's just a bit much for Caleb. I feel like that's just a bit much for Caleb. I feel like Caleb's very much like he's attractive.
Speaker 2:But he doesn't even know that he is. He's a little bit more, yeah, a little more, but he's a little nerdy yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly Exactly our type you mean. So I felt like Dylan O'Brien was a better pick for that.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it was good. Final thoughts let's read more of her books, Final thoughts Maybe.
Speaker 1:Wynne and Bowes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, let's see if Wynne is a little less insufferable than Sarah.
Speaker 1:She just she needed therapy. I think that'll be my final thought Sarah needed to go to therapy, and then she would have had the proper communication tools to be able to tell Caleb I think I want to go back to school. I like that. That's all she wanted. She wanted to go back to school and have a purpose, yep, but she felt like she couldn't say that to this sweet baby angel. Yeah, that's the hill I'm gonna die on. Caleb deserved better than that, yeah.
Speaker 1:I agree, okay, all right, thanks for coming along for another short time. One thing yeah, I do feel like Sarah or Wynne and Bo. I think they get pregnant like immediately in their book, because there was something about the timeline there where it was like they met and then they had a baby like a year later. So I was like, okay, we're going to have some questions there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, unexpected pregnancy trope. Oh yeah, those can be kind of rough sometimes. Yeah, that's true. Like, oh no, you did A plus B and you didn't think C was going to happen, oh my gosh. So anyway, we'll see, we'll see how it goes. Yeah, so anyway, we'll see, we'll see how it goes. Yeah, okay, that'll be it from us. Yep, like, subscribe, follow, share all the things, all the things. Okay, bye, bye guys.
