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When Girls Talk Books
Are you ready for story time? When Girls Talks Books is a podcast with two best friends bonding between the pages. They give comprehensive reviews of books where even if you haven't read the book, you can still enjoy the story. Brace yourselves for a tornado of laughter and literary love! When Girls Talk Books is here.
When Girls Talk Books
Ep. 20 The Gilded Butterfly Effect by Heather Colley
A glittering sorority house. A basement ritual. Two girls trying to survive the performance. We dive into Heather Cawley’s Gilded Butterfly Effect with clear eyes and a full breakdown of why this debut hits like a bruise: parties that feel like auditions, therapy that feels like a pharmacy, and friendships that flare hot in a world built to look away.
We start with Stella, the curated “it” girl who micromanages pills and persona, and Penny, the outsider who wants to be seen so badly she mistakes attention for care. Their connection is electric and messy—equal parts comfort and misread—and it’s the fragile center of a story that asks how far you’ll go to feel safe in spaces designed for spectacle. Along the way we unpack the campus ecosystem: long counseling waitlists, parental posturing during football weekends, and the hush around hazing that reduces girls to proof. The pig roast isn’t just a plot device; it’s a map of power, consent, and the kind of loyalty that turns people into collateral.
Jack and Tripp anchor the spectrum of harm—the “nice” pledge with a soft voice and the golden boy who treats conquest as currency. We talk about complicity that hides in manners, why evidence disappears so easily, and how performative grief replaces accountability once the headlines fade. If you care about feminist fiction, campus novels, and the mechanics of coercion, this conversation goes deep: body image, drug culture, projection in therapy, and the ethics of silence when warning a friend might change everything.
We close with honest takeaways and a grounded 3.5 rating: not for shock value, but for the way this book names what too many institutions still stage-manage. If the episode resonates, tap follow, share it with a friend who loves sharp literary talk, and leave a quick review—what scene did you find hardest to forgive?
Editing done by Connor Luther @clfilms.co
Music by @thundercatlouis
Merch Here
Hello, hello everyone, and welcome to another story time with When Girls Talk Books. I'm Kylie. I'm Susie. And today we're doing a gilded butterfly effect by Heather Cawley. Um, we are gonna we did do an author interview, which is gonna be coming out on our Book Bites episode, so feel free to look out for that. And this just came out about a week ago. So Heather was kind enough to give us advanced copies so we could go ahead. Um, but be sure to go ahead and check her book out um because it is her debut novel.
unknown:Cool.
SPEAKER_07:Little round of applause for Heather, everybody. Okay, let's get into it. Star rating.
SPEAKER_04:Star rating for me changed a couple times throughout Facebook to be so I'm finished at a 3.5 out of five.
SPEAKER_07:Mine was a 3.5 too. Yep. Um, I don't really love 0.5s, but I was like, this, it's not a three. I didn't think it was a four, so I three and a half, yeah. A true three and a half. True three and a half for me. It was just different than what I was expecting. Yes. So we'll just put that there. But it was good. And I think it's also one of those kind of like the Saturday Night Ghost Club that we did, where the more you think about it, the more you're like, oh, that was kind of cool. And I like how that was done.
SPEAKER_03:And that's very true.
SPEAKER_07:Things like that. Um, like in our interview, I kept bringing up things that I was like, I actually really did enjoy that part of it, or I like how that was written. So anyway, it could change by the time that we're done with this. We could be like, you know what? Yep.
SPEAKER_04:Actually, some character that I really enjoy would be like, you know what? Actually, you fuck that guy.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:But actually, that's true.
SPEAKER_06:Um, all right. Should we get into the story line?
SPEAKER_07:So we open with Stella, and from the very first line, you just know that she's not the type to fall in love. She kind of classifies herself as she is not a romantic person. She doesn't have the time for romance. Um, and it almost feels like it's a practice method where she's kind of created herself to be that way. Um, kind of in like a protection, I would say. We our starting scene is a birthday party, and she's standing on these wooden risers that the frat has created to kind of block the scene from the backyard, which I thought was interesting, but that's how it's described. And she's surrounded by her sorority sisters, they're laughing too loudly, they're pretending, you know, just a little bit too much, and it definitely has a performative vibe to it, which I think, as a girl, I think we all kind of get that's just the reality of being 19 or however old they are. Um, and everyone's watching the girls because they're I mean, that's what they're up there for. They're up there for the boys to look at them. So you can feel how hyper-aware she is of being seen, of having to be beautiful, um, because someone is always looking at her. The boys are watching, the pledges are watching them, and the girls are laughing, and everything is just kind of feels like it's spinning. This is like a classic party team. And then there's Millie, her friend, who is her dealer first and her friend second. Yeah, heavy on that. Heavy on that.
SPEAKER_04:She's nobody's fucking friend.
SPEAKER_07:And she is kind of described as spinning through the party, like just kind of floating on air, as you would say. And there's no real joy in it, but she's definitely on adrenaline, she's on some sort of substance. Um, and you can definitely feel how early semester chaos is happening. So everyone's excited. School's just, you know, started. Stella Falls, literally off the risers, and she is kind of shocked, and then the sorority sisters are laughing, and so she decides to join in too. She looks down, there's blood on her knees, and then they pour vodka on it to sterilize it. Um, and it's a weird kind of scene. The whole scene is just kind of weird, but also very realistic for a girl. You know, like everyone's laughing. I have to laugh too. You're bleeding, honey.
SPEAKER_04:Yep. But I could be on the brink of tears, but actually, that hardly hurt at all.
SPEAKER_05:That's never been funnier.
SPEAKER_07:And all of them laughing at me.
SPEAKER_04:Yep.
SPEAKER_07:Um, so then she meets Jack, and Jack is kind of the calm and the chaos. He's charming, he's quiet, Midwest preppy. Um, and he she describes him as the kind of guy who still calls his mom on Sundays. So very just wholesome good boy. And there is Nico, who is the president of the Sigma Row fraternity, and they're friends. And he's like, You need to talk to him because they're trying to recruit him for the frat. So these fraternities and sororities kind of team up, I guess you could say. So, what is hers? Kappa, Kappa Alpha? Kappa. Yeah. They've paired up essentially with Sigma Row and the church. But she's got bad juju with the church, so she's no longer kind of following them around like she used to. So now she's kind of switched sides. Oh. Because, okay. Um, so she does. And Jack kind of asks her where she's from and just basic questions, but it does kind of throw her because it's not how boys usually talk at these parties. Um, they usually are very surface level, which I think, in my opinion, that one's pretty surface level, but it throws her off, where she's like, I don't want you to get to know me. Like, I'm good. Yep. Um, and so then she kind of pulls away from him almost immediately and says she's going to self you, which is just bars. She's going to a different bar and leaves. And she's like, Oh, maybe I'll see you there. Uh, that night she does coke. Drugs are a big, big thing in this story. So she does coke. Yeah. And it's in August, which is a big deal. And she tells us that Coke isn't an August drug. It's too early, it's too bright, it's too much. Um, and then our story shifts to Penny. She says her parents used to call her a problem, but now that she's been diagnosed with something that she doesn't tell us, but it's depression, along with a slew of other things, I would assume. Um, but now that she's been diagnosed, she's she's an issue, is how they describe her. She's an issue. And somehow that feels worse to her, and you can definitely feel her exhaustion. Like she's tired, she's worn down. Uh, she's like a girl who's been existing just outside of everybody's story, so she's very much the outlier. And her only real friend, which isn't really a real friend to me, is Leia. So Leia was one of those girls in high school. She was very magnetic, she's beautiful, she's talkative. Um, and so Penny and her kind of became friends, but she more so just kind of exists within Leia's circle, is how it really is. Um, and she definitely has some sort of envy of Leia, which makes sense. And she says that she just wishes she could like unzip Leia and just like step inside of her, so kind of like be her, which I think this is subtle foreshadowing, which I've didn't really think about until now.
SPEAKER_04:You're so spot on with that.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. Um so now that she's in college, she's stuck in a routine that just kind of doesn't feel like anything. Her professor tells her that she's promising, but she's deluded. So she has the potential, but it's just not there. Um, and it's definitely a quiet cruelty to tell her that. It's like being told that you can do something, but you're just not quite good enough. But you're just not quite there. Um, so she gets on a bus. Uh, no plan, really, no goodbye, just kind of the instinct that she's gonna go to Michigan, which is where Leia goes to school. A little bit crazy to me. Yeah. She's half asleep, half awake. She's cycling through her three medications. This is for this, this is for that, that's for that. Um, and she starts to think about Leia and how she's the only person who ever really like made her feel real or like she belonged in any way. Um, so at the rest stop, she calls her, and the line is very chaotic. Leia's shouting over people, um, obviously at another party. And Penny's trying to explain that she's coming to Michigan, and then her phone dies. Mid-sentence. So instead of panicking, she just throws it away. Like you do. Yep, you just throw that away. She drops it in the bathroom trash bin and just gets back on the bus on her way.
SPEAKER_03:I completely forgot this happened.
SPEAKER_07:It's like now that you think about it, oh signs are there. Yeah. Uh so she does meet, Leia meets her at the station, and it's kind of like two different worlds colliding. Leia is still very much who she was in high school, but it's on a different level. So um she's got like a shiny confidence about her, she's got the Greek letter, she is just very like magnetic, is kind of how I would say the same as she was in high school. And Penny is very exhausted. She was just on a plane forever, she's kind of spiraling. Um, and so she's like, Okay, well, you're here, come with me, I guess. This whole thing was just kind of odd to me. Yeah. But here we are. So they walk through the campus and the area, the bars. Um, she tells her the best pizza places, the loudest bars, the frat parties. Um, and then she brings her to Cap Alpha, which is the sorority, and she's like, This is where I live. And it's very much your classic sorority house. The white columns, the balconies. Um, and Penny kind of freezes like she doesn't want to go in because it's exactly kind of what she wishes she could be, but she just isn't. Aber Nathan. We call his name, and now he's out to get us. Um, and so she doesn't really want to go in, and Leia says, it's fine, they won't even notice you. Ouch! Like, all right, bitch. It cuts. Um, especially because Penny, she definitely feels like her invisibility is both a curse and kind of her safe space. But rude.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it wouldn't have killed her to just be like, you know, oh, don't worry, most of the girls are really nice. Or everyone's really big. I don't think they are. Yeah, yeah, that is true.
SPEAKER_07:Um, I probably I don't know. I think this whole thing was to me very obvious that Lee and her aren't actually friends. No. Penny thought in her mind that they were and that they were closer than they actually are.
SPEAKER_03:But this whole thing was disgusting. There is nothing worse than like when you're made glaringly aware for the first time, like, oh, this person doesn't actually like me very much.
SPEAKER_04:I thought we've been friends. Yeah, like, oh, this is humiliating. I'll just leave and never try again. Yep.
SPEAKER_07:Um, so she definitely just wants to like disappear from everything, essentially, her whole life. And Leia, in a way, is offering her the perfect place to do that. Nobody's gonna notice you. Come on in. So the chapter ends with Penny sitting in the dark of her mansion, of the mansion, and taking her first Midwest Prozac. Right. All right. Um, if you had to pick, would you rather be the girl that everybody's watching or the one that no one sees at all?
SPEAKER_04:My anxiety tells me that I'm always the one that everyone's watching and laughing at regularly. So I would not in that light. Oh. Not in the light of like making it in a good way.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I don't know. Yeah. I like attention. Who am I kidding? I think, you know, if we're as shy as I act, if it's a good spot, I do like it. So yeah, that'd be fun to try. You like the the attention of it all? Yeah, the one that like had it all together was so magnetic, and I'm not awkward at all. Yeah, that would be so fun to try.
SPEAKER_07:I'm not awkward at oh.
SPEAKER_04:That would be something. Yeah. But then I wouldn't be soup. But anyway, but if you had to choose, that's right. Yeah, if I had to choose, I'd want to be the cool bitch.
SPEAKER_07:So it's obviously the first week back and everyone's out. Stella and Millie are headed downtown, but Millie is immediately distracted because boys are there, which I think is kind of one of the worst environments, I guess you could say, that will drive me crazy. So I got where Stella was coming from because she gets very, she's over it immediately. Like, okay. Uh so she goes to the bathroom and she takes a bump, and she says she feels like it's an old friend that she's saying hello to. And this is kind of a point because, as she said, that's an August drug. You don't do that until August. And then here they are, well, probably September. She's like, let's get this done. Um, would you have stayed with Millie, or would you have already, subject-wise, if that was the vibe of the night?
SPEAKER_04:Given the age that they are when this is happening, I will not pretend like I'm so like aware. I totally would have stayed around and been in that 100%. Yeah, I uh good thing to point out the age. I wouldn't have had the courage at that age to walk away. Yeah, that's fair. Um now?
unknown:Hey.
SPEAKER_04:Toodles! Hey! I'm not having a good time. Hyl and I are gonna go eat snacks on the couch and uh y'all have fun. At the bar. Yeah. You guys have a happy hour menu? Yeah. I need some mac and cheese bites. Okay. Oh, I'm getting ready. Vacation tops. Anybody got some tons?
SPEAKER_07:At the time, I agree I would have stayed. Yep. Yeah. Now um, so Stella ends up um at Southview, so she does kind of be like, this is not it for me. And she runs into Jack again, and he's just kind of wandering around. Well, well. All calm.
SPEAKER_02:Um calm and collected.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. And they end up at the a different bar together. And he's buying her drinks, she's pretending that she has the money. She's like, Oh, let me get. He's like, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_04:It's on the house.
SPEAKER_07:I got it. Like the TikTok shirt, let me get it. Altoids of the chapstick. Um, and it's definitely kind of like awkward, almost flirting, but she's not really trusting it that much because she doesn't Stella does not trust men as far as she can throw in.
SPEAKER_04:At a girl.
SPEAKER_07:Valid. Um, and he orders Estella, and she's like, okay. Um, I did I didn't write this down, but there is a point in there where we kind of get the first look of Stella has some sort of eating disorder. And it's just kind of a hint at it, but not so much. No, what's so good? It becomes glaringly obvious later. Yeah. Yeah. Because he orders her a what was it? Jack and Coke.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, and it was regular.
SPEAKER_07:She could taste the sugar in the cake. And she didn't want the sugar, she wanted diet, and she like yells at the bar to diet.
SPEAKER_06:Yep.
SPEAKER_07:So, anyway. Um, they talk, but again, she gets the vibe that he's too genuine, he's asking too many questions, and Stella's not used to that environment. Again, she's just kind of like, What are you in that business for? She's not, she's not about it. Um, so she kind of leaves him at the bar. She hits the dance floor head out and starts drinking tequila. She uh hits the dance floor, everything's spinning, and the next thing, you know, she's wakes up on the bathroom floor and sticky tile, her knee is bleeding again because she uh fell on the floor and there's vomit in her hair. Oh real glamorous, very lovely. And there is a beta who is a different sorority there, and she is in the bathroom with Jack.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, yeah. I'm like, oh no, I don't remember what what part was that?
SPEAKER_07:So he's like, please don't make me the beta is being very judgy. She's kind of calling her names under her breath, and Jack basically ignores the beta and is focused on Stella. He helps her up and he puts his shirt on her because she has vomited all over herself.
SPEAKER_01:Um my eyes are fucking half shut, and I'm like, hmm.
SPEAKER_07:Do you consider this chivalry or like a savior complex?
SPEAKER_04:She's like, he's like a shark circling the injured seal in the water. That's what's happening now.
SPEAKER_05:Because before I was like, oh, he's so sweet. She can handle her damn self. Get the fuck away. Men always intervening.
SPEAKER_07:Oh yeah. She is literally in the toilet getting toilet water to wash. She's fine.
SPEAKER_05:Are you kidding me? She's fine.
SPEAKER_07:She's ready for another round. She's throwing up so we can do more. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Duh. It's making some room for the tots.
SPEAKER_07:Um, so Stella takes it. She they do leave together, you know, walking towards the streets. Hand in hand. I know. The age thing is so hard. Yeah. This is so hard. Um and then tell lobes. We're like, oh, uh. But, you know, that comes with age. Oh, yeah. Because we're a thousand years old, apparently, with how we're acting. We were born in 1754. That time not supposed to drink on my pills. Oh. She probably isn't supposed to drink on her pills. Facts. Um, so sorry. Anyway. So there's definitely like a calm, kind of soft thing that is happening, but it's definitely not spoken. Um, and then she he ends up kissing her goodnight, which she kind of spirals in her mind about, which is fair. She's definitely overanalyzing everything about everything, and he doesn't invite her in, and she doesn't invite him in either. And it's this mutual non-moment of like, that's just not what I'm after at the time. Yeah. Um, and then she goes back to Cap Alpha. Inside, there's a girl. Who is she? We don't know, sleeping on the living room floor. And Stella just is very blunt and says, Who the hell are you? And uh, it is Penny, Leia's friend. And Stella is definitely very gentle with her. There's definitely a moment of intrigue, I guess you could say. And she sits down and she talks with her. Um, and she essentially tells Penny that you could try to have a decent time while you're here.
SPEAKER_04:Which I thought was kind of odd, but um I suppose I kind of didn't understand it if it was coming across. Like, you know, you could at least try to have fun while you're here.
SPEAKER_07:Or if it was like, don't be worried, but like you can have some fun. Yeah. I think I had a hard time connecting with Stella. And I think it's just because we're vastly different. I personally felt like I connected with Penny a lot more. Yeah. Um, but with Stella, I do think she is the sorority girl. She loves to party, she loves things. I do think Stella is manipulative, but I do think also at the same time she is kind. She's a kind person. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Dare we say she may not even be really aware of her manipulative tendencies yet. But sometimes she is. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Because she uses it. Um, and Stella has this moment of kind of feeling unloonely in Penny's presence because Penny is very present with her and is very authentically herself. And Stella feels like she lacks that in a normal day-to-day because everybody around her is kind of putting on this performance. Her included. Uh the morning hits her like a truck, she's hungover, her roommate is back and asking about what happened, you know. Oh, she left with Jack. And she just says, We're drunk, we were drunk, it won't happen again. Yeah. Did you believe her at this time? No. Do you think she's lying to herself? Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Do you think that she really thought, like, you know, how you're kind of like, oh no, it's not gonna happen again, but like, yeah, like there was definitely she thought that he wouldn't want it to happen again, but she's like, Yeah. But she doesn't want to feel that way. But she does. Which is a very frustrating feeling.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. I think it's a self-sabotage feeling. We'll call it spade a spade. Anyway, so then we get Penny's perspective of the night that she uh meets Stella. It's very sweet, wholesome. She's definitely enamored with Stella. Dear Diary, this really cool girl. Okay, be so honest. I kind of thought they had a thing for each other. Oh, yeah. But didn't want to admit it. I was a little bummed. Yeah. Um, I thought how I thought this was gonna go. Because there is this heavy obsession, each of them, with each other. Um, is Stella, they were gonna like each other, but Stella didn't want to admit it. And so it wasn't gonna happen. But I don't know, I got the vibe. Yep, I got a vibe.
SPEAKER_04:I got a vibe. Okay.
SPEAKER_07:But anyway, so Penny wakes up and she has Stella's button down on her. And as she's sitting there and she's listening to everybody talk, she can't really decide if she hates all of these people or if she is enamored by them. She has conflicting feelings about it. But in particular, it's definitely Stella. So she can hear her laugh, her whole presence, everything about her. And um, Penny calls her fairy-like. She was a fairy. She was a fairy. Then Stella comes down and her hair is damp from the shower. She looks very effortless, you know, as they all do. I can't really badass.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. We're French out the shower.
SPEAKER_07:Um, and Penny kind of like slinks into herself because she doesn't want to be like, oh, remember last night when we chatted and we were best friends. But she does kind of feel that way. She's like, I hope she notices me. Yep. Um, and Leia pops in for a second and she's like, here, and she throws a pancake at her. Leah's the worst. Sorry, I'll say that now.
SPEAKER_04:I wanted to kick this girl's ass so many times.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. I so many times cannot imagine someone coming to see me and treating them like that, regardless of the situation. What are you doing sleeping on the couch? Okay, thank you.
SPEAKER_04:I was trying to like Susie, like, wait. Let it get a worry. Why would you bring someone to visit and leave them in the living room?
SPEAKER_07:Even if it was unannounced. Yeah, even if.
unknown:The fuck?
SPEAKER_07:There's a common decency here. I'm sorry, especially in a house with people that she doesn't know. Yes, it's different if I'm gonna crash on the couch at your house.
SPEAKER_04:That's a totally different scenario. Like, oh my god, it just really bothered me. And the fact that they just made her stay there the whole time. That really bothered me.
SPEAKER_07:The whole time. Penny's like, where are you going? And she says, church. And Penny's like, really, on a Wednesday.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, you guys Presbyterians or start another.
SPEAKER_01:Um it's like, what's a Presbyterian?
SPEAKER_04:I was like, I'll put together a little uh PowerPoint. That's all right for next time.
SPEAKER_07:I'll ask if I got questions. Um would you, from like Penny's perspective, would you have said anything or just like let that go?
SPEAKER_04:Because she doesn't know what the church is. Yeah, I would be naive and desperate to be liked. So I would go ask somebody else what church like is. I wouldn't bother that girl.
SPEAKER_07:You would have asked Stella.
SPEAKER_04:I would, yeah, I would start hiding from Leah, Leah, whatever the f or did you go to church on a Wednesday? Yeah, I'd be like, what is this about? Like, what is this code for? I'm clearly not getting something. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:But yeah. So Stella walks in and she's just like, what's up, Penny? Because that's who Stella is. And Leah looks at her very confused and she's like, How do you two know each other? And Penny immediately um is like, or Stella's like, Oh, we know each other, we're friends. And Leah's definitely like, okay. And so she leaves. This is called being a person. For the love. Um, so Leia heads out, and now it's just kind of Penny and Stella, and Stella tells her, you know, I wasn't in my best form last night. We've all been there. I think our best friends want anybody when I drink, but anyway. And Penny is just kind of entranced by Stella. And this comes up a lot. They're just really obsessed with each other in a little bit of an odd way. Unhealthy for sure. I don't know if uh this would have flown with me. I like my space.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:No offense. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:That's why we fit in so well together.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Uh nah. I'm actually just gonna stay home.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_07:Or, hey, you wanna do this? It's okay if you don't. Yeah. That's always my line. Um, but then so Stella just starts talking with her, and then she's like, What are you doing today? And Penny is like, Can I go with you? Good for her. Good for her standing up for herself. Not standing up for herself, but take expectalizing. Yeah. And Stella just is like, Yeah, yeah, of course you can. Because she's a normal, decent human being. Mm-hmm. Sorry, that whole Leia thing really sent me over the edge. Uh, yeah. You're a horrible friend. Yep. You're not even a friend. Stella grabs Penny's hand, pulls her upstairs, and then we get to meet the real queen of the house. Millie. The drug supplier. Yeah, she's a character. The dealer of all things chemical and case pharmaceuticals. Yeah. Were you surprised by Millie kind of being like the the pharmacy of the sorority? No. No. No. I kind of did. Oh, really? Especially with how organized she was. Oh. Yeah, I wasn't expecting that. I expected the drawer of empty pills or random pills. That checked out to me. Oh, go ahead.
SPEAKER_04:But like she's got everything categorized. Alphabetized.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. That was surprising to me. So Millie's there. She's got her vape. And in the bed next door is Jimmy, one of the church boys. Oh, okay. Which Stella sneers at because she's no longer the church follower. And also the smoke detector is ripped from the ceiling. Dramatically. Like Stella introduces Penny as her friend. And uh Stella or Penny like short circuits about this, which was so sad. Like for her to be like, I'm somebody's friend. Stop it.
SPEAKER_04:But like, right though?
SPEAKER_07:It's so it's so it's such a simple thing, but it meant like so much to Penny, which was really sad. Um, but of course, Millie Bean, Millie, all these girls are almost awful. Almost all of these girls are awful.
SPEAKER_04:Well, there's sorority girls in the college. Sorry. But I haven't myself had a lot of great experience. Not that I went to college, but anytime I met them and they talk about it, and then they turn out to be bitches. I'm like, oh, okay, I get it now. Yeah. So I'd love some new experiences. Love that.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. I'm good. I'm good. This is how this goes. I'm good. I'll take your word for it. Yeah. Uh, but Millie kind of does her whole power trip thing of like what. You here? Who are you? Blah blah blah blah. This is my kingdom.
SPEAKER_04:Keep your shitty house.
SPEAKER_07:And Stella kind of shuts her down and was like, She's my friend. That's all you need to know. And um then Millie drops the axe, she shows her all her things, all of her categories. Isn't it neat? Yeah. Uh the loose pills was crazy to me. But frightening to think about. But Penny is just kind of, she's definitely fascinated with this whole thing. And Penny is very much a self-medicator at this point. Like she's she gets more into it, but she's fascinated with how things make her feel and what's the right combination and trial by error. So she picks out a mix, she grabs some antidepressants, some history pills. Yeah. And uh later that day, her and Stella just kind of hang out. And then the days definitely start to blur of like she's there for a while. And Penny keeps taking bill pills. She's going on walks with Stella. They're hanging out pretty normally. They go to coffee. Um, they do almost talk every night down in the living room. Because you still don't just girly things. Yeah. And um one of the moments is that when they go on their walks, like the running team women across country go by. She just calls her the runners. Anyway, they go by and um Penny just says, like, she has like a casual conversation about how she like envies them, and still is like, yeah, what's us girls to do with girls like that? Still is about yay big. Yeah, that's true. It was interesting.
SPEAKER_04:Another little like add-in about what Stella's dealing with, yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Okay, because like she which this is just Stella does have some negative things to say about how Penny looks. That is very apparent in the book. Um Yeah, it was just mean. It was so mean. More than once, too. Just like, God damn. We get it. And um, but it is interesting that she and she does this multiple times. She puts herself in that same category as Penny of like, yeah, I mean, what are we gonna what are we supposed to do with girls like that? She's like, Penny's looking at her like, are you nuts? Yeah, like, uh, yeah. Um, but so that's kind of shocking for Penny to realize that Stella does not think of herself that way, and she is very hard on herself. Do you think, like at this point, did you think that Stella was good for her? Or do you think it was just kind of another one of these mistakes that was about to happen?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, just another one of the mix. I didn't think it was like I honestly didn't think they would stay friends at all.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, fair. I didn't. I did think Stella was gonna be good for her. Okay, not knowing the extent of Penny's issues.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Probably there's that.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. And also Stella starts to kind of go off the rails too. They both go off the rails just in different ways. Yeah. Crazy. That's scary. Yeah. Oh, okay. So then we learn about Julie, who is Stella's psychiatrist, and Stella. Julie!
SPEAKER_04:I don't know how I feel about you, Julie. Sorry, but I don't know how I feel about this lady. Tell us.
SPEAKER_07:Um, but she manipulates manipulates Julie like no other.
SPEAKER_04:Which, if your patient can manipulate you that easily.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. The fuck? Yeah. Stella wants all the pills. She wants everything. And she definitely like wants a cure-all for, you know, she's anxious, she has depression, she definitely has an eating disorder. Like, she has all these things, and she's just like medications or appetite suppressants and yep, the appetite suppressants, uh, the sedative, like she is a big fan of that. And so she Julie plays right into her hand and gives her more meds, stronger meds, like consistently just like writing new medications for her. Um, but with that being said, I do think that Stella has problems. Oh, clearly.
SPEAKER_04:100%.
SPEAKER_07:So it's kind of hard of like, is this is she gaming the system or is she self-advocating? Because they're not all false statements. She does have anxiety, she does have depression, she does have an eating disorder.
SPEAKER_04:Thanks.
SPEAKER_07:But it is kind of she's phrasing things in a way of like she knows what she's trying to get. So it was this whole thing was kind of odd to me. But you know, she gets her pills.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_07:So she leaves the pharmacy and she goes right past the church, and there's boys outside. And who comes out of the house down the steps? Who's this Jack again?
SPEAKER_04:It was Trip Swindor. Oh, this guy. I've been waiting for us to get to him.
SPEAKER_07:And they just kind of catch eyes, and then she's all and scurries away. It's very all weird. But we do get the introduction of him, but we don't know anything about him. But we do know that Stella used to be like a church groupie, and now she's no longer.
SPEAKER_04:Something happened.
SPEAKER_07:The plot sickened. And she does talk a lot about like last spring, things were different. Last spring. I was a little bit like bitch spit it out. Like, if it's so good, let's hear it. I agree. I was the same way. Um, so being 19 years old, I don't want to say knowing what you know now, but like knowing that something happened there, would you have like dipped?
SPEAKER_06:Would you have sit him down? Would you have said anything?
SPEAKER_04:From my own It depends on who did the cutting off. If he was the one that didn't call me, uh, I wouldn't have even taken the fucking risk of walking past. Oh, fair. Like fair girl. But if I was the one that had called it off and off on my way. Oh yeah. Or I'd be playing that uh teeny weeny short dick. I mean, don't want, don't want, like, oh yeah, yeah. But yeah, if my ego has been hurt and they are the one that like, you're gonna leave me? Yeah. I'll make sure you never see me again. Unless I'm on the like, unless I'm winning Miss America, getting the Nobel PC. Seeing you on TV. Yeah, like unless I'm looking my best, you will never know that I even exist. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Certainly not with your pockets full of new prescriptions.
SPEAKER_04:No.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Okay. So we have a bit of a little cut here. It's Friday night, and this is there, people are at the church. Um, things are, you know, regular old house party. There is the Loretta who arrives with two other people, and she is, you know, just a Midwest bell. She's beautiful, she's blonde, and the boys immediately clock her. So we get a little bit of an inside scoop to trip in the kind of guy that he is, and he does, you know, the classic look, scoping her out, then kind of like targets in on her to have a plan. Yeah. And so then he goes to the dance floor after he takes drugs. Yep. Goes to the dance floor, he's like dancing with her, he kisses her, and um then the boys are like, trip, come over here. And he's like, ah, risk manager duties. He's not the risk manager, first of all. But she's like, oh wow, he's responsible. Ooh.
SPEAKER_04:So true.
SPEAKER_07:Was such a lie. Like, he's not even the risk manager. They said that he'd been asleep by 10 p.m. Like crazy. Anyway, so he does go to the boys, they smoke, and then he promises Loretta that he'll find her later. And she believes him. And, you know, yeah. Hours go by, he's very clearly intoxicated, and he finds the blonde again, which we come to find out is that Loretta went home, you know, hours earlier with her friends. And the girl in Tripp's bed in the morning is not Loretta. And he doesn't know, he doesn't know her name. Uh, and then one of the boys lets him out, lets her out and is like, oh, I let Lindsay out earlier, whatever. And he's like, Lindsay. He's like, the girl that was in your bed last night. He's like, oh, right. Crazy. Yeah. Um, and then so then we're back to Stella. So that was just our little tidbit on the type of person that trip is. He's just, he doesn't really care. He's got a girl in his bed, he's having a good night. Yeah. That's kind of his M. So Stella goes back to Julie and she tells her that she saw a trip outside of the church, and Julie is very much Miss Psychiatrist. How does that make you feel? And uh Stella says, kind of what we're all thinking is that she hopes she'd never see him again, and she admits that she had skipped that party that we just got an inside clue tour. So she does say that she skipped the party that had just happened that weekend, and everyone else went, and she does miss it there. She misses going to the parties, but she also hates it there at the same time. And Julie tells her to avoid male-centric spaces, you know, focus on her family, her friendships, kind of different, different environments. And Stella goes to Jack. Like you do. So she goes to Sigma Row, Nico answers the door.
SPEAKER_06:They have this little moment of like he's essentially, you gotta, you know, we're trying to get him. She's like, whatever.
SPEAKER_07:So she goes upstairs and she finds Jack and he's studying, it's very quiet, kind of mellow vibes, and he offers her a drink, a rum and diet. He rummed parent. And then vodka, because we need to escalate here, and they start kind of talking about their parents, and he tells her that his parents are very proud of him. And Stella tells him that her dad is somewhere in Europe. He's maybe hiking, clubbing, kind of depends on the day. And her mom is a mess. And she kind of she says that she's the kind who waters down her rose with her emotions. Like she's just a bit of a mess. And she almost lies to him, but then she decides not to because she's like, nobody wants to hear this. But like he's they're kind of reaching a different level.
SPEAKER_05:He's not like the other guys.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. And uh she so then she just kind of tells her he she kind of trauma dumps on him a little bit about her parents.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, I mean, as one does.
SPEAKER_07:That's the only way to have a real conversation, you ask me. But anyway. And um, she he tells her, I like that you know who you are. So he does he loves her vibe of things. And then they kind of start listening to music. Stella plays Me and the Devil Blues, and then it's Jack's turn, but Jack just keeps replaying whatever Stella played. So this whole moment is just kind of very soft, very slow. They do end up uh playing Truth or Dare, and she asks him, like, why did you choose Sigma Row? Like, why are you in the fraternity? And he says, Friends. He asks her the same thing, and she says, she kind of goes on about like I was very lonely, like I felt very alone, and so that's kind of a sensitive moment, I guess you could say. And then they share a couple kisses, nothing too crazy, but then she starts to kind of think about her past and what happened in spring, and she gets up and she's like, I need to go home. And so Jack walks her home and he gives her her his hoodie, and uh, they talk about parents' weekend, and he says that his parents are coming, and he asks if her mom's coming and or if her parents are coming, and she goes like my mom's coming, even though she hasn't invited her, but she's like, That's what normal people do. And uh then they share another kiss, and then she's like, See you soon if you want. And uh or not, and then uh he's like, Yeah, and then turns to go, and she has a moment of like, why am I doing this? Essentially, is what it is.
SPEAKER_04:Me at least twice a day.
SPEAKER_07:What are you doing? And then she's like, Jack, can I see you tomorrow? And he's like, Yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_06:And so they make plans for their little library.
SPEAKER_07:How romantic. Um, and then she wakes up when she gets into that house.
SPEAKER_04:She wakes up, she wakes up and realizes it was all a dream. I'm like, what?
SPEAKER_07:Who the page is that? Um, but she wakes up Penny and she kind of talks to her about it, and so they have like that moment there. We do get Penny's perspective of like Stella coming in. She asks her if it's the same boy that she's been seeing, and Stella says, Yeah, he just lets me be me. And he's definitely like, he lets her be quiet in moments without being alone, is the way it kind of feels. Which there's comfortable silence, yeah. She likes. And then also during this section, we do get Penny, and you realize how depressed that she is, and she says it feels like um an elephant is sitting on her, and it's just very suffocating. And she doesn't really sugarcoat it. She says her brain either is a frenzy or it's dead weight, and there's kind of no in between. Um, and she has been living on the couch for a while. Leia only stops in sometimes, like, hey, you good? That's basically it. Um, and Stella is really the only one that she's actually connecting with. So we get that little tidbit. Um, the next day, Stella invites Penny on a therapeutic walk. And um, this is her way of following the therapist's advice. So she wants to reconnect with non-romantic relationships. Like, I'm like, you guys are in love, but okay. Yeah. Uh, but so they do go into the woods and they're sitting there, and they sit by this like half-frozen lake, and Stella just is like, You ever want to just freeze over in that thing for a while? And Penny's like, Yeah, yeah, I do. And so it's an unspoken moment of like they both kind of have that same depression going on. And then Stella starts telling her about what happened last spring, the date post. Oh, yes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So this is very triggering. Yeah, the whole second half of the book, if you're yeah, but she does tell her about the party.
SPEAKER_07:It's, you know, the classic party. There's drugs, there's hookups. Um, and it is the first, like, uh, you're officially a sorority member. And so they all bring dates, and it's like kind of a big ish deal. And so she brought this guy, and they had been kind of hanging out for a while.
SPEAKER_04:But it was still pretty new.
SPEAKER_07:It was pretty casual, also, and then she asked them to go, and she ends up waking up that night, and he is already sexually assaulting her and taking her virginity, and she's it's very much like in and out, in and out kind of feeling. And you can definitely tell that she's like disassociating, and she kind of exits her brain, and she kind of just like lets it happen because she's like, What is he gonna say about it? And like, he was my date, and it's this very like really sad moment of her feeling like she doesn't really have any option but to like go along with it, even though it's not what she wanted. True, and the next morning he kind of looks at her and she describes it as he has like a bit of a look of disgust, which is interesting, and um so that was that was the bit the thing that happened last spring, but she doesn't tell her who it was, which is a horrible problem, yes, it's a big, big issue. The entire last bit of the book could have been resolved if she would have just told her who it was. Yes, so but anyway, Penny just kind of listens to her, and then she starts to cry, and they have this kind of moment of like sitting together, and then they kind of make a joke of like, oh, you got sweater on your face now because she's crying and wiping it, and it was like you and I would do we do something, you know, we we're discussing something traumatic, and we're like, but anyway, uh hey, you win some, you lose some.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that's a classic.
SPEAKER_07:Um, why do you think she chose to tell Penny? Why do you think that was the one that she chose?
SPEAKER_04:Because she's not in the circle, she's safer. When someone is out of it, it's easier to share. When someone is so disconnected from whatever you're about to share, from my own experience, if you have to share something really uncomfortable, it was always easy for me to do it when it was someone that's so disconnected, they don't know anybody to go rediscuss. Kinda yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So I feel like that's probably why there wasn't as many expectations or feelings or anything.
SPEAKER_07:Do you think she just kind of felt like she was drowning in it? Like she had to tell her, she had to tell somebody. Oh, maybe. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Maybe. And then maybe in Stella's mind, if she started to tell people, then that means it really happened.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, it makes it more of a reality. Yeah. That's fair. Um, they do discuss Jack just a little bit. Same kind of concept. He lets her be her, and she's just kind of hoping that this time is different.
SPEAKER_05:Yep.
SPEAKER_07:Which is a is fair. Um, so then the section after this picks up, and Stella had finished telling Penny the story about what happened to her, and it's very quiet, and Penny's just sitting there, and she's kind of like frozen because she's not really used to this kind of emotional stuff. And in her brain, she's like, Okay, brain, you're gonna pat her back and you're gonna tell her it's okay. Like, she's just not really used to it. Then later, they're sitting on the floor in the living room, and it's definitely kind of sad, quiet. They're still kind of joking, but Penny is overanalyzing everything of like, did she love him? Did who was it? Did she see him? But she doesn't really feel like now is the time to say anything. She's like, Stella's probably done for the day of opening up valid. Yep, that's enough for one day. Yep. Oh, Stella then asks Penny about her love life. And Penny says, There's not really nothing to tell, not much to it, and Stella says, I don't blame you. Look what we've got to choose from. And Penny is like, ha ha ha. It's another one of those moments. Yeah. She's like, we are not on the same page here. Like, but Stella really doesn't see herself that way. So and Penny says, I mean, look at me. And Stella does. It's not a very nice, you know, scene, but she doesn't really think about it when she says those kind of comments because she does see herself, and Penny is kind of the same in a way. Which is interesting. Yeah. But if you like her body dysmorphia, things like that, like her brain, her brain is also not right. Yep. In a different way.
SPEAKER_04:Oh my god.
SPEAKER_07:Um, but so we switch over to Stella's therapy session with Julie. She tells Julie I made a new friend. And Julie's doing her therapist thing. That's one. And how does that make you feel? Um she's uh but she's very excited for her, like, oh, a girl! Like, whoa, you're not centered around men, which is interesting because that's what Stella hates about other girls, but she also kind of does it.
SPEAKER_04:Because she kind of hates herself for it, so that's why she projection. Projection is a beast.
SPEAKER_07:Um, and Julie asks, like, why Penny? Like, why is that such a big deal for you?
SPEAKER_04:Well, I see myself as secretly above her, so it's easy for me to be her friend.
SPEAKER_07:No, that's not what she says, but well, she actually says something really nice. Yeah, she says that Penny listens to her. She's not fake listening, she's really listening, she's in the moment, and she likes that about her. And she also says, uh, you do too, except you're paid to do it. Yeah. Which is fair. Do you uh do you feel like that was sincere? Or do you feel like that's like uh what is it called? Deflecting.
SPEAKER_04:I get it. Yeah, I think that was sincere.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, yeah. I felt like it was deflecting. I don't think she thinks that Julie listens to her at all. Oh, she's like, here's some pills. Here you go. That's true. Here's some pills.
SPEAKER_04:If if she was, why would she be so dismissive? She is a very dismissive psychiatrist. Yeah. Huh.
SPEAKER_07:Anyway. Um, but she then does tell her, you know, I care about her, but she's depressed as a motherfucker, is how she says it. And she says that she's got bad luck of the brain.
SPEAKER_01:Perfect. I don't want to hear that. I would not want to be hearing that.
SPEAKER_07:I thought it was a pretty good way to put it. She's got bad luck in the brain.
SPEAKER_04:But it would suck to be like, oh, so like I'm not fixable, I just have bad luck.
SPEAKER_07:No. Yeah, that's kind of funny. So fair enough. Got me there. So then Julie does tell her, like, maybe you're projecting some of your own problems on her. She's like, what?
SPEAKER_03:This bitch. Yeah. What? So you think you got your degree? And you know what you mean.
SPEAKER_07:Uh so now we have Parents Weekend. Yeah. Which is an annual ritual where everyone's parents show up and pretend to be normal for 48 hours. Uh Stella invites her mom, even though she doesn't really know why she did, but she does. So they're sitting in the room, and Stella's talking about Parents Weekend and her new boy toy. And Penny is sitting there sorting her pills between what she thinks things are, colors, sizes. Because at this point, she's grabbing from the candy bowl of mixed pills. She gets to a point where she's trying to trial and error the things on what makes her feel best, which is so dangerous.
SPEAKER_05:Interesting.
SPEAKER_07:Um, and then Penny does ask Stella if she's gonna introduce her mom to her boyfriend, and Stella immediately shuts it down and she's like, Boyfriend! It's modern day, Penny. Okay. Um, so then we cut to Minnie, who's Stella's mom, and she's popping Prozac on the plane and gossiping with the girls about her difficult daughter, and she's convinced therapy's a scam, and that they do. Yeah, Stella just needs to be righted, which kind of tells you what she thinks of her kid. And then we also get Trip Swindle's point of view, and he's waiting for his dad, Reggie, who's a big finance guy, and treats him like trash, honestly. Reggie's at the airport drinking with somebody's mom.
SPEAKER_04:Can I really quick, you know who I immediately thought of for Reggie is the dad from uh from Somewhere I Turned Pretty.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, that's fair. Who I casted.
SPEAKER_04:Valid. And I feel bad because I do kind of like that character more than I like this guy. I'm not saying he's a great dad, I'm just I enjoy laughing at the shit he says. Versus this guy in the book, I hated him more, but that's what I was picturing the whole time.
SPEAKER_07:This guy in the book I enjoyed more because Trip is a piece of shit. So yeah, be awful to him. Yeah. That's that hey, sorry. Um, but anyway, so we get kind of the insight to their parents and what they're doing. They're both hot messes, they're both the worst.
SPEAKER_04:And um think not very highly of their children. No.
SPEAKER_07:So back on campus, Penny is kind of rising through the social ranks, like she's you know, cool now because she's been hanging out with Stella. And Leia, her ex-best friend, has kind of brought her back into that circle. So she's definitely hanging out with her more. But the problem is Stella and Leia don't like each other. So there's this weird tension there. Um, it's football Saturday. All the parents are there, there's booze, it's chaos. Stella is kind of waiting on the balcony, chain smoking, waiting for her mom to show up. Minnie emotionally like, oh god, oh god, gonna be a home weekend. Uh Minnie shows up and she's wearing a sequined dress. And of course she is. Yeah, she's just kind of one of those, and it's very cringy.
SPEAKER_01:Hey girls, what's the 411? I'm not just a regular mom. I'm a cool mom.
SPEAKER_07:Exactly how it feels. Um, but they do try and talk, and Minnie asks Stella about her boyfriend, and uh Stella is trying really hard to have a moment of normalcy with her mom. Um, but she does tell her, like, oh well, I made a friend, Penny, but she's not in a fraternity, and then her mom is very awful about it, and she's like, What are you saying, hanging out with the scum of the earth? Yes. And so she then she is like wants to go back to talking about Jack because she doesn't want to ruin the moment, but she's also very irritated at her mom about it.
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_07:Um, it's really sad. But then Stella kind of goes off on her own, does what she always does. She starts drinking. Football party is over at the church, and things are kind of going off the rails. The moms are drinking. Oh, the tailgate.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Tailgating started.
SPEAKER_07:Um, the daughters are drinking with the mom. Stella's trying to not throw up all over the place. Penny shows up with Leia and somehow kind of gets dragged into everything. And Stella is instantly clocking that that she's hanging out with Leia. And then we're kind of hit with the peak of Minnie, Stella's mom, climbs onto the stage and she's dancing.
SPEAKER_04:Oh Lord, somebody go get your mom.
SPEAKER_07:Um, then she spills some wine on her shirt, she takes off her shirt, and she's like, Oh my gosh. And Stella's just kind of like standing there watching her, and she's like, Oh my gosh. She is gonna go and grab her, but then through, like, on the other side, she sees Trip and she's like, actually, fuck this. Yeah, you know what? You're a grown-ass woman. Valid. Um, I do think this whole thing was interesting because it's like, Stella, you're watching yourself. You're watching yourself in about 20 years. Hate to break it to you, but um, would you have pulled your mom off that stage or would you have just left her up there?
SPEAKER_04:Um, I'm just gonna have to be honest, my mom wouldn't let me. There's no way Let you pull her down? Yeah, absolutely the fuck not. If she's not gone. Yeah. Yeah. Because yeah, yeah, there's no way she would have no. So no, I I would have just left. I would have just waited outside on the curb and just waited to hear the thud or whatever. That's not my mom. Yeah. That would have been me. Not my mom. Yep.
unknown:No.
SPEAKER_04:See, I wouldn't have. If it had been you, yes.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, pull me down.
SPEAKER_04:Because I can't. Something went horrifically wrong for you to be behaving that way. I'm like, You get me down.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Um, but Stella leaves. And so she's kind of walking through everything, and she wanders. To Sigma Row. And she's looking for Jack. And she finds them being haste. And it kinda is like, wake up, girly. Like, he's not just some boy. Like, he's kind of going through this whole thing. And she walks away. So that she's like dang. He's getting abused. Oh. Yeah. I'll come back later. Yeah. Um, we do get the aftermath of her mom waking up in a bottom-tier sorority house.
SPEAKER_01:That I loved that. I love that lady getting humbled.
SPEAKER_07:Which they're so nice, though. Those girls were so nice to her. And like kept her safe and comfortable. You're welcome. Yeah. Trip is waking up to somebody else's mom. Uh, Reggie is on a flight home. He's disappointed in his son. Mm-hmm. Whatever. And then the I, Reginald. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Don't like you.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. And then um the next chapter starts with Stella thinking about her mom saying, like, why would you be friends with someone like Penny? And she doesn't really know why. She kind of is going through this mental thing of like, like, why would she say that? What about her? Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Like, what are you talking about?
SPEAKER_07:Well, she's trying to figure out why she does like Penny.
SPEAKER_04:Oh.
SPEAKER_07:And she realized she does like Penny. Like, she's not typical. She's very real. She kind of is definitely starting to grow on her where she says that she kind of starts glowing from the inside out. Which is sweet. Sure.
SPEAKER_05:That's cute. Sweet and all.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, but she hasn't talked to her because Penny's hanging out with Leia. She doesn't like that. And Leia is basically what she's described as a church accessory.
SPEAKER_04:Fire hole fence.
SPEAKER_07:And every move, like everything she does is just for that male validation. And Stella is like, nope. No thanks. Not doing that.
SPEAKER_04:I don't enjoy pick me's.
SPEAKER_07:That's not we don't do pick me. Fair. And Stella's kind of been avoiding everybody. She admits that she's kind of suspicious of Penny now. Yeah. And she starts to become suspicious of Penny. Like, why is she why was she at the tailgate with all those people and giggling at boys? And I thought she was different, and kind of that attitude. Yep. And it definitely makes Stella start to question whether she like told the right person. Like what she opened up to Penny, and like now she's changing. And then also she starts to wonder if Penny believed her. That's also a thing that she kind of gets in her head about. But she kind of tries to shake it off. She reminds herself that Penny almost cried, and then she comforts her. And uh it seemed like she really meant it. So she wants to reconnect with her. This was all very back and forth. Um, and maybe talk about her mom and kind of the weirdness of all that. So she's kind of made up her mind. She's gonna catch Penny out, um, and she knows that Leia had dragged her to a different bar. So Stella tells Jack that she's gonna swing by. Um, and she has been staying at Sigma Row for a few nights, not sleeping with him, but like they're definitely fooling around a little bit. And she kind of always takes a step back. So she's not really ready for that yet. Reasonably so. Yep, fair enough. Um, and she oh, so she goes to Sigma Row and he says, you know, you want to come in for a drink? And she's like, No, I want to go find Penny. And um he does come with her. So they go to the bar. We go to Penny's point of view, and she's nervous because she doesn't have a fake ID. Oh no. Leia's like, don't worry, we know the bouncers. You know, okay. So they skip the line because of course they go down in the dark basement where this bar is at, and um, Penny is scanning for Stella. So she is looking for Stella, but instead she finds Jimmy, and Leia introduces him, and Penny recognizes him as Millie's Jimmy. Oh, that's right. Yeah, and uh Jimmy doesn't recognize her at all. Cool, cool, great. Um then we kind of rush to Leia throwing up in the bathroom. Penny's holding her hair, um, kind of doing the mom thing. And then Leia blurts out that she's worried about the fraternities and their awful game that they're gonna play. And she doesn't really say what it is, but she's worried about it. So then they go back to the bar, and Leia is, you know, all over Jimmy, and Millie's not there yet. So Penny clocks that. She's like, hmm, interesting. Mm-hmm. And Penny's just kind of floating around the crow the crowd. She's not really doing a whole lot, and then a boy appears, and he's blonde-haired and blue-eyed and all-American boy, and he asks her, Can I get you a drink? And she's like, It's happening! Yeah, like she's never been asked this, so it's like kind of a big deal to her of like, this is from a story. I'm a main character now. You wanna buy me a drink? Yeah. Um, so she says yes, and things are gonna get messy here a bit. Buckle. Stella shows up with Jack, and uh Millie also shows up at the same time, and she like body slams her like into the elevator and is like, we need to talk in private. Millie's always on something. Yeah, so true. And then she Jack is like, I'll go get some drinks. Oh my hello. Yeah. And she's like, I've got a plan. Or it got me. She's like, what the fuck are you talking about? Okay. And uh she's like, I need to- Oh my dead. Millie is like, I need you to talk to uh Jack. I have to I gotta talk to him. The fraternities, they're gonna get all my supply. And she's like, Oh my god, you're so crazy.
SPEAKER_01:This is kind of funny.
SPEAKER_07:So Stella's not really buying it, and then uh Millie storms off because she's like, You're not listening, you're not getting it. She's in her own delusions, and uh Stella gets her vodka and Diet Coke because he remembered, and the night kind of just progresses from there. Stella is surrounded by Sigma Rowboys, and it's uh kind of chill, kind of weird at the same time. Um, and then one of them mentions Hell Week, and Jack just kind of shoves him and is like, shut the fuck up. And uh Stella doesn't really think much of it. Like, oh yeah, Tail is all this time bound to happen. Yep. Um, but then she spots Penny and across the bar is Penny, and she's surrounded by church boys in kappa alphas, and she notices that she is with trip trip. Yep. And bum bum bum. And he's doing his whole charm, he's touching her ear, which is weird, but okay. Get your grimy paws off of my ear. That was just kind of weird, and you can tell, because then he's like, We found and he's just kind of half listening to her. Uh-huh. But she's like trying to grab any attention that she can. He's also throwing limes on the floor, which is gross, but and smashing them with his foot.
SPEAKER_04:That's like that's like when a dude spits and you're going, Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Uh what are you doing? Right here in front of me, right now? Yeah. Like, really? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You, David!
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. But Tripp keeps ordering her drinks, their doubles. And uh red flag number 57. She's getting a little bit buzzed. Um but I mean free booze. Yeah. Yeah. And she doesn't know who he is, which is crazy. Girl. So Stella then decides that she's gonna tell Penny. She's gonna warn her, she's gonna stop her from doing what she's doing. Um, and then she sees them like continue to touch, and she sees Penny like laughing, and she feels very like betrayed almost, even though Penny doesn't know. She doesn't know that Tripp is the one that screwed her over. But okay.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:So then um we go to Penny, and Penny, her side is just kind of sad. So they're sitting there, they're talking. Millie comes in and blurts out that she struck a deal and she's on all these. I'm a rich!
SPEAKER_05:I'm a rich.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, Millie literally like falls on the floor, and then it's like this whole thing, she catches her, she looks up, and Trip is like gone. And it's weird. Um, also during this, Millie makes a snide comment about Trip to Stella, about like you would know type thing when it comes to him.
SPEAKER_04:That's so shitty.
SPEAKER_07:And uh then Stella breaks and she breaks glass, she slams the glass down right next to Millie's feet. As I would too. Well, that's better.
SPEAKER_04:I'd have knocked her in the temple with it, but charged. So you know, she did the right thing.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, and then she bolts into the elevator and she's very upset, and then Jack's shoe gets caught, and he comes in and he picks her up. It's okay. It's alright. Yeah, but I'm yeah, but um, so then Stella goes back with Jack and they do end up sleeping together. And then stupid, stupid, stupid. And then they talk, which to her is like people don't do that anymore. Sad, sad. Yeah. But um the bar is in hell. Yeah, then the next morning she's really struggling with everything that happened the night before with Penny and Trip, and she's just kind of she's doing all these things, she's journaling, she's doing all of her exercises, and nothing is working. So then she goes to Millie for drugs. Millie um tells her she doesn't have any, she sold them all for uh Hell Week to the fraternities. And she, you guns! I'm rich! I'm rich. Millie's going off the rails here a little bit. Uh-huh. Um, and then Millie throws up on herself mid-sentence. She folds up on the floor and Stella's like, ink ink.
SPEAKER_05:All right, I'm gonna come back later.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. So then we have Penny, who's just kind of not really doing a whole lot. She's kind of waiting for Stella for Trip for something to happen. She's unsure. And um she's trying to convince herself that trip buying her drinks the night before meant something.
SPEAKER_04:Uh, yes, the good old days where you overanalyze the smallest things on one.
SPEAKER_07:Yep. And this is actually when she starts running her self-experiment of Millie's leftover pills of what's gonna make her feel good and bad. I don't like that. No, yeah. So then Stella essentially tells Julie that she needs to make an emergency appointment. This whole thing is she is trying to get her to prescribe her ketamine, and she does. She makes it out there. And so then she puts the ketamine in her office or in her room in the drawer. Because also, this was like a weird, like frantic mental thing of like, if Penny takes a ketamine, that means she's changed, and if she doesn't, then she's still Penny and I can still trust her, and da-da-da. So weird. Yeah, it was interesting. So then Penny's kind of experiment hits a wall. She's humanic, she's the downers aren't working for her. It's just nothing is working for her, and she's trying to look for like the perfect pill, which is crazy. Um, but she's really, really trying to. So then she goes up to Millie's room, and Millie is like unhinged, she's screaming, she's paranoid, she's shrung out. Umikes. Yeah, she then is telling her again that she sold everything to the fraternities for Hell Week. And she's mad at Penny for even asking. And Millie tells her, or Penny then has a moment of telling Millie, like, you don't understand, like, it's medical, it's for it's like I need this, it's not just I just want to have fun. Yeah, and Millie tells her that it's medical for everybody. Yeah. Which is a crazy statement. Yep. Yeah. But um, so then we get Penny, where she tries to go see Jack and is not let in the house because it's hell week now. So she can't she can't go in. And then so she's like, I guess I'll go to class. Yeah. How annoying. Yeah. Um, but by the time that she gets back to Sigma Roll, she can see Jack. So then she goes upstairs and it's very like eerie, quiet. It's just kind of weird. Um bad vibes. Yeah. Penny is kind of hanging on by a thread. She doesn't have any more pills, a shredded thread. Yeah. And she's like, uh, and she ends up going to Leia and is like, Do you know anybody? Like, do you know anybody that can give me pills? And she's like, go to the source. And so she tries to find counseling. And uh, it was like a six to eight week appointment that she'd be looking at. She doesn't have the time for that. And then they she does call someone private outside of network, and it's Julie. It's Julie. And Julie says that she's not accepting clients. Um, and Penny really internalizes that of like, oh, I'm not good enough. Yeah, what am I doing that's wrong? And then so she decides to go upstairs and she goes to Stella's room and she takes all of snorts all over Kenemy.
SPEAKER_04:All of it. All of it a lot. Because it was a like brand new bottle that Stella hadn't been taking, correct?
SPEAKER_07:Like yet, no, yeah, because it was a big test for Penny. Yeah, because she thought in Stella's mind, she's like, well, we could do it together, and if if she does it, then then she's changed. Then she's just like everybody else. But okay. We do, so we're kind of getting to the end here. So we get down to the church basement where the church and Sigma Row have paired up together for Hell Week, and both the presidents of it get to announce what their last task is of Hell Week, and that's Trip and Nico. And the last task is the pig roast.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Fucking disgusting. This anyway.
SPEAKER_04:So foul.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. They also hand out all the pills that Millie had given them. Um, but essentially, their task is to find a quote-unquote pig, roast her, and then take photo evidence of it and bring it back to the president. And bring it back.
SPEAKER_04:Crazy. If you want to be in the fraternity, that's what you have to do. Yeah, and that it was just so icky.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. Um, and then we get a little bit of a view into Penny. She's higher than a kite. She says she's never felt better. This is the happiest moment she's ever been in. And uh it's everything is just kind of falling apart. So then also Stella, she's kind of crashing out. Uh, she's not sleeping, she's not eating, she's not seeing Penny because she feels weird about her. She's also not seeing uh Jack because it's Hell Week. Um, but it's just all kind of everything's fine.
SPEAKER_05:Everything's fine.
SPEAKER_07:Everything's fine. Yeah. So then we get to Kappa Alpha's weekly ritual, which they all get together, they sing their little Kappa songs. Oh, that was so weird. So weird when I like read it, I was like, ooh. Yeah. I do think it's interesting that they both have like their weird cult like sorority things, fraternity things, but the girls is pretty and they white, and the boys is down in the basin. Yeah. I thought that was interesting. Um, but during this, uh she the president lady tells them that the fraternities have announced their final task and it's the pig roast. And all the girls are immediately like, oh and any of the like um what do they call the new ones? Pledges. Pledges are like, um, like I was soaking up Jim Bob over the weekend. Like, what do you mean? Yeah, sorry. Wait, uh, yeah. And Stella also has a moment of like sorry. And then, so then we also get a view of Penny, and she is on her downfall, and she just says the elephant's back. It's very sad. Very sad. Um, during the Kappa Alpha meeting thing, Millie ends up telling Penny or telling Stella that Penny's off the rails. Like something seriously wrong.
SPEAKER_04:The girl's off her rocker.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. And Stella's like, aren't we all? And she's like, no, dude. Like literally. She's like, no, she's got a problem. Like something's wrong. Yeah. And Stella is also, you know, spiraling because she thinks that she was the pig in this pig roast for Jack, which is sad.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Um, and then so now we have Penny, who's like, soon I'm gonna be unmedicated, so it's not gonna matter anyway. But she needs to be medicated. Like, sorry. In every sense of yeah. Yeah. So then she decides to go to the church because she says um there's not really any difference anymore. I might as well go.
SPEAKER_00:Oh god.
SPEAKER_07:And then once they get there, Leia immediately abandons her to find her other friends. Um, and then Trip appears, just like, yeah, well, well. And she kind of feels like it's almost romantic, and maybe that was meant to be, and she wants to believe that it was meant to be. Um, and then he uh brings her up to his room, offers her this red drink, says it's jungle juice. Not the jungle juice. Um, he drunk her, yeah? Yes, yeah, okay, I thought so. And then um, everything is just kind of flickering in and out here. It's very horrible. He says, you know, this would be a lot easier if you just shut up and he takes advantage of her. Which was just poor thing. And then there's a flash of a Polaroid because he's disgusting. And uh that's kind of the final moment of like realizing what this pig roast is, and he's president, so he doesn't have to take he's choosing to play because it's fun, it is crazy, and Penny is reeling from it. Penny was also a virgin, so she's bleeding, she's like, gotta get out of here. Drugged. Yeah, crazy. Um, Stella decides that she wants to confront Jack, so she goes there, she knocks on the door, and she asks him if he played. Did you play in the road?
SPEAKER_02:Oh my god, this part made me so mad.
SPEAKER_07:And he says that he didn't play. Of course I didn't. And she believes him, she crawls into that bed. Denial is such a nice, comforting thing. But he's just a sweet little boy. Yep. Yeah. And then we jump back to Penny. Penny is walking home. She's wearing trip sweatshirt, which is kind of an important thing to note. Um, and she goes back to the living room floor. She just feels alone and she's she's kind of at her bottom. She's unmet unmedicated. Coming down hard. She's coming down very hard. And this kind of teeters her. The darkness that's been festering inside of her has kind of reached its point. So the next chapter, Stella opens up with, I don't want to mince it. It kind of is what it is, and tells us that Penny foo, and then she crashed. So Penny jumped off the balcony of that house. Of the house, and crashed into the cement. Um, it does talk a lot about what happens next, the world's reactions to it, because these are headline news. Yes, big things. Um, there's a lot of performative grief with the other Kappa Alphas crying, and she kind of feels like what are you guys crying about? Like Penny was my friend. Even though I feel like it's so weird, it's so complicated their relationship.
SPEAKER_04:Because she wasn't actually that good to her either. But yeah, I've I've had similar feelings before when you watch someone just fucking boo-hoo and in the pew, and you're like, Do you even I see like yeah?
SPEAKER_07:Um, and then she says it made the headline for about two weeks, and then it didn't matter anymore, which I think is so accurate. Oh my gosh, it's so accurate. Um, Stella is kind of unraveling, but she refuses to do drugs anymore. She's holding on to Jack. Um, and then that next day she went downstairs, and below the pillow, she found Tripp's sweatshirt, which she recognizes because she wore Tripp's sweatshirt. So she knows exactly what probably happened.
SPEAKER_02:And she decides to help hide this. She destroys it.
SPEAKER_07:Which I think is not a girl's girl move.
SPEAKER_03:I think she never claimed to be a girl's girl, Susie.
SPEAKER_07:Do you think it's like some sort of guilt because she knew that trip was bad and she never told Penny though? Or do you think it's like self-preservation of like, I don't want this coming back? Like, I don't know, I don't know what the thought process was.
SPEAKER_04:I think there wasn't a lot of thought. It was just selfish to the core because she wants trip to herself, so this was one thing.
SPEAKER_07:I don't think she does. Oh, that's true.
SPEAKER_04:But she's had every opportunity. So yeah, why would she choose to be loyal to this guy over her friend?
SPEAKER_07:I don't even know if it's a loyalty. I think it also, I think, I think it's probably guilt. Yeah, because if she's like she knew that this was a possibility. Yep. It could have been avoided.
SPEAKER_04:I think your theory is correct.
SPEAKER_07:Um, but so then we shift to the boys, the pig roast finale. Um, it's performed in the woods. There's a fire, there's burning, and the pledges are literally throwing their photo evidence of what they've done into the fire. Um, Tripp is all, you know, himself all proud and blah blah blah. He throws Penny's picture into the fire. So now there's no more evidence of what had happened because both of these things have burned. And um we do find out that Jack had asked his friend if he could do two pig roasts and give him one of the Polaroids because he's got a thing going with Stella, but this boy also has a thing going with somebody back home. So he's like, I can't do it. I can barely stomach doing it once. And Jack participated in the pig roast. And like, but like hear that sentence.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, I wish I could, dude, but like my plate's pretty full myself. And I mean, I wanna.
SPEAKER_07:Well, he didn't want to do it either. That was the thing. Is he he didn't want to do it. He couldn't stomach doing it twice. He didn't want to do it in the first place. Yeah, so Jack did. He took a uh sorority pledge up to his room and he Wasn't it Stella though? No. Oh, I thought it was. No, oh, it was another it was somebody else. Okay, okay. I'm fairly certain. No, I believe you. It's Stella Blanche fit that that mold mold, yeah. Okay.
unknown:Wow, God.
SPEAKER_07:And then he says, maybe I'll tell her when the weather gets warmer. Right, yeah. Oh my god, yeah. Oh my god. That threw me for a loop. Crazy.
SPEAKER_04:Um I was I did secretly hold out hope that one of the girls was gonna mentally snap and show up and slaughter the body. Oh, that's the other fire.
SPEAKER_01:I was like, yeah, that's so cool.
SPEAKER_07:No, that's gonna be, yeah. And then the ending is Stella back in Julie's office, and she's essentially saying, like, I'm a murderer of some degree. She has this guilt about Penny taking her life. And Julie says, Uh-huh, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Here you go. Anyway, quit your bitching.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. And then she essentially just says, Yeah, I can sometimes feel that way, huh? And then writes her more prescriptions. Yep. And that's the end. The end. Crazy. Crazy.
SPEAKER_04:Not at all what I expected.
SPEAKER_07:No. Okay. Fancast.
SPEAKER_02:Fan cast. What's fanc? Fancast is if we were gonna make a movie or a TV show, who would we cast them to be?
SPEAKER_04:And it's one of the best parts.
SPEAKER_07:I gotta pull out my phone. Okay. Start with Stella. Stella!
SPEAKER_04:Sorry, the whole time you've been saying it, I've been having old.
SPEAKER_07:Okay. Not me typing in Stella. Okay, who's your Stella?
SPEAKER_04:Uh Shaylene Woodley from Big Little Lies.
SPEAKER_07:Love Shailen Woodley. Love her. Um, mine is Dove Cameron. Could choice.
SPEAKER_04:Could choice. Who is your penny? Uh, Grace Van Patten. Oh, oh. Have you seen her show? Have you seen that show? Hang on, my brain's a little. Let me.
SPEAKER_07:Tell me lies?
SPEAKER_04:Yes, I have seen Tony Lies.
SPEAKER_07:Oh gosh, crazy good.
SPEAKER_04:Very good. Almost everyone I chose is surprised.
SPEAKER_07:That's kind of fair. It was a theme. Um, I chose Danielle MacDonald for uh Penny. Oh yeah. Yeah. I think she'd do good. She's in um Dumpling.
SPEAKER_04:She's in. I love that. Yeah, that was good. Jack. Uh Jackson White from Tell Me Lies.
SPEAKER_07:He said I chose Drew Starkey from The Outer Banks.
SPEAKER_04:Oh. Really? Oh. Outer Banks. Yeah. It was Outer Banks. That's what it was called.
SPEAKER_07:Yes, because I think he could be really sweet, but he's also like the bad guy in the show. Yeah. So then you would see like that shift. True. When you get to be a good one. Yeah. That's good. Um, Trip.
SPEAKER_04:Thomas Doherty.
unknown:How dare you?
SPEAKER_05:I'm sorry. My BJ! I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_07:That was my fan cast for BJ Valentine from Magnolia Parks. Well, that wasn't good. I know. Especially, yeah. My man's gonna come at him like that. My trip was Austin Butler. Blonde hair, blue-eyed.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:You can go for that. I mean, not his character, but I get like the the mold of it. Yeah. Alright. Final thoughts.
SPEAKER_04:What the actual fuck, bruh? Oh, great. Also, glad I didn't ever want to be a sorority girl. Yeah. Sounds scary. This is fiction.
SPEAKER_07:But still. This book is very chaotic. There's a lot, it's a lot of like uh mental thoughts. Yes. Yes. It's a lot about just kind of the psychosis of this sorority life.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. That sounds good. Definitely the more you dissect it, the more you like it, I feel like. Yeah. So anyway, be sure to pick it up. Yeah. It comes out 21st. Yeah. It already came out by the time this comes out.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. So get after it, people. Go enjoy it. Let us know what you think. Supporter. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. Make sure to uh like, subscribe, share, follow. All the things. All the things. And uh we'll see you guys next time. Okay. Bye. Bye.
